We have a great existing thread about the latest the electric vehicles, and which ones are the best to buy. CHOICE is now seeking some further input in this area. In particular, we’d like to know a bit more about your personal preferences when it comes to electric vehicles (EV).
I wouldn’t consider buying an EV at any point
I would consider it in the future, but not right now
I am considering it in the near future
I own an electric vehicle
Please feel free to expand on your choices in the comments section!
The family should not need a ‘new’ vehicle for 5 to 10 years, maybe longer? Nothing to do with vehicle types just the present petrol ones are not so old and in pretty good nick.
When the time comes we’ll see what the market offers. Not welded onto anything nor are my expectations fixed on anything in particular.
I know a lady who just ordered a Tesla - 7 months to delivery. She will be my first direct owner contact who will be able to share experiences first hand, and I look forward to hearing about her experiences. At present she is expecting to recharge at shopping centres and council car parks offering facilities while she does shopping or business, and that seems to reflect her travel patterns. She did express some worries about long distance where she would need to stop for 30-60 minutes enroute for a charge and the planning and verification of what and where, especially if there was a queue there on the day.
I want to wait until hydrogen fuel cell EVs become more common place and then evaluate and assess what is the best option. When we drive, it isn’t usually short distances but 100km to many hundred in a day (up to about 800-1000km/day). Current battery EVs are not suitable for such use unless one plans their trip well and wants to take extra time with the travel.
There is a lot of current research (and now development and investment) into hydrogen as a energy source for transport, and there seems consensus that it will be the main energy form for heavy vehicles and a more common option for passenger transport in decades to come. HFC EVs alleviate some of the current constraints with battery EVs. Having travelled to the Andes, I am also concerned about the long term sustainability (and impacts) of lithium extraction from alpine brines (which will be needed to meet future forecast battery production for domestic and commercial applications).
Small to midsized SUV, moderate range at highway speeds.
Both our vehicles are now 18+ years old, newer secondhand vehicles are at a premium, and most new vehicles are delayed delivery.
There are a number of the lower cost EV options that could meet our daily driving needs. The majority of our trips are local 10-20km daily with a once or twice a week longer trip of 50-100km return. It’s rare that we would drive more than 150-200km in a day. In 2+ years of Covid, perhaps once only.
Missing is V2H in a vehicle that we might choose, and a sensibly priced and approved charger. It’s currently less expensive to upgrade our solar PV to a 6kW 12kWh battery system than purchase a V2H charger!
Without an added benefit from V2H for whom at present are the greatest savings in fuel and maintenance? Light commercial, tradies and those on a daily commute, 100-250km return will pay back far sooner than our local use averaging 100-200km weekly. The options for the former are not so great, Ford F-150 Lightning and others still to arrive.
Will be interesting to see when they become practical for remote/outback areas and long distance driving. When they can be recharged in the same time it takes to put 120 litres of diesel into a tank then things might work for me. I know there are all sorts of potential solutions to this, but affordable reality has to arrive before it even starts to make sense - ie 1500 km in 16 or so hours elapsed time on the tarmac, or 800 km off road with no real services available - time aside. These outcomes in a practical and affordable vehicle seem well into the future.
On the affordability - not everyone has the desire for a shiny new car. Both my 4 wheeled vehicles are nearing 20 years old - still very reliable and arguably far more serviceable if something untoward does happen 400 km out of town. What I paid for them both doesn’t come close to half the cost of an electric ‘shopping trolley’ let alone what the cost might be when Toyota release an all electric Landcruiser (900 series by then I’d imagine )
I’d consider buying something electric for my daily commute (70 km) if it were practical and outperformed my current 2 wheel sled … There are some impressive models emerging …
Apart from what has already been discussed, a major impediment is price.
I remember when having an automatic gearbox was an optional extra which cost quite a bit. Now, it seems that having a manual gearbox is the optional extra. Likewise, I will probably have to wait until EVs are cheaper than ICE vehicles to be able to afford one. To achieve this it would help if the Government got it’s finger out and started to actively support EVs instead of denigrating them. They could reduce the duties and excises, and they could remove the luxury vehicle tax which applies to some. Gosh, they could even invest in a sovereign EV vehicle industry and create new jobs for the people who lost theirs when the Australian manufacturers closed down. Perhaps they could call the new marque ‘Charger’?
There could come a point where the value of a second hand ICE will be scrap because BEV’s and variations of become the vehicle of Choice for most new car buyers. The dealers will not be able to give secondhand ICE’s away.
It’s likely a time Australia’s motor vehicle dealers and supporting parts/accessories businesses hope is deferred indefinitely. Consideration may assist in answering the following,
What number of jobs will be lost from Dealerships and the automotive industries as BEV take up accelerates?
The MTA claims it employees approx 380,000. It makes the 50,000+ jobs oft quoted at risk in the coal industry appear a minor concern to the economy.
It likely explains why there is no rush to bring cheaper BEV’s to our market, and why so many of us are cautious in our hopes. The MTA has influence both as a business and through it’s significant trade and retail based workforce.
Toyota, Mazda and BMW have invested hundreds of Millions in Hydrogen Cars and are now stopping because Battery EV’s are so cheap and all new EV’s do 300 klms plus per charge some up to 600 to 1000 klms. As the Charging stations grow and charging gets faster there will be very little time difference as most people are encouraged to stop after 2 hrs driving (200klms). Lithium is currently plentiful and as the Number of Batteries grow they can be recycled with the Lithium used again. Other battery types will include Solid State and Sodium instead of Lithium so it won’t be the only source for batteries. And Cobalt is being eliminated in CATL and BYD batteries the two biggest makers. LFP Lithium Iron Phosphate.
Current LFP batteries are rated to 1,000,000 Klms. Charging times are getting faster and anyone driving 800 to 1500 klms is going to take a long enough break to recharge themselves and the battery. With Transport running costs reduced by 70% most Companies will see the light and switch as they are doing currently in Europe. Currently the 4WD EV’s are expensive but watch tests on Youtube about the now available Rivian and see why they are better than any Landcruiser. Australia sems to be talking about EV’s of 10 years ago.
Tesla Model 3 outsold Toyota Camry (former #1) in Australia in 2021. No doubt, when the Model Y lands in Australia, it will take a significant sales away from the SUV market as well.
I must confess, I have never driven a BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle) before and I’m not sure if I will enjoy the experience. However, it is the future. I’m confident my next vehicle purchase will be a BEV.
It’s true Tesla’s sales in Australia have increased several times over compared to 2020. Also evident from the above is the type of vehicle most Aussies are interested in buying, as well as hinting at their budgets.
Longevity of the battery is a good thing - and looking at the Rivian it looks very nice with very impressive capability and performance - 67k$ (US I’m assuming) for the entry model? not my budget - could I afford it? yes, could pay cash today - not the kind of thing I spend that kind of money on though - I want to retire in the not too distant future, but not sleeping in my car
Charging times will improve, its the Achilles’ heel of EV, but yes, it will get there, it has to. My days of driving 1500 km in one hit are nearly over, but more often I have one or two extra drivers so the driving doesn’t stop - there’s nothing to see or do between where I am and the big smoke and my days of rolling out the swag at a truck stop are also almost over. My needs are also by far the minority though and I understand that - I’d guess most people drive maybe 10-30k to work and do holiday of a few hundred kilometres with towns maybe 30-50 km apart? On the main road from where I live to my ‘home town’ there are stretches of 250 km. Not sure if there is anywhere in Europe where one can drive 250 km without passing through a town.
One wonders what is around the corner - the ‘battery jerry can’ perhaps? Certainly my hundred series Landcruiser (non turbo) does not make me want to leap in the air and shout ‘oh what a feeling’ - but it has done many many outback miles often with numerous jerries in the back together with roadside top-ups.
From what I see of the Rivian - 20 minutes of fast charge for another 140 miles (225 km) … that’s not in my time budget either … but it is ‘getting there’ … (maybe I misread the spec’s - happy to be corrected …)
R1T - Rivian They are expensive. Range is from 418 Klms to 640. Because they have 100% Torque from start they are very capable 4WDs and a motor in each wheel. Ford and GM have their EV trucks as well but the Chinese produce much cheaper ones which may come available in the near future.
One of the real advantages - maximum torque at zero rpm, also removing (depending somewhat on the application) the need for a gearbox - It’s been around for a long time as petrol electric or more commonly diesel electric in maritime, locomotive and heavy mining applications, though of course petrol-electric has made a bit of a comeback with hybrids, in a sense. It’s that aspect of it which makes the possibilities of two wheel performance somewhat exciting - case in point, the Lightning LS-218 - still a bit expensive at around 38k$ US, but 0-100 in 2.2 seconds and no gear changes all the way to 350 km/h … that would be fun to ride!
One big plus for sure.
For those looking for continuous off road use or some extra low speed grunt coupled with extra top end speed, or …. some are still looking to a gearbox to perfect the solution.
The perfect Aussie bush bashing EV may still be in the making. It might also carrying an ample supply of hydrogen and a compact low power fuel cell (15-30kW) to top up the batteries. A great source of extra water in the desert and added camping power for that 20kW carbon neutral induction BBQ.
In the interim the Ford F150 Lightning offers much of the same including the ability to power the average construction project from (US spec) 9.6kW of on board outlets.
This adds a possible extra option to the original survey.
I’d buy a BEV today, but the model I need is not available in Australia, or sold out!
P.S. added note - the following expands on the concern that availability is a significant factor in the purchasing decision.
Electric vehicles are too expensive at the moment. But even if you do buy one, the batteries are too e4xpensive to replace, when they start going flat. The expense of replacing the batteries would probably even out at the expense of having to pay for petrol. So one is not better off
That is an interesting comment. This link reflects the information in many web sites although it doesn’t have the best presentation and is US centric, as are so many web sites but it goes some way to address a number of related issues, including Tesla battery replacement prices.