… exactly. It could easily be that the USB hub negotiates a different power value as compared with the vanilla charger - once you go beyond USB 2.0 and standard USB 3.0.
Rabbit hole. Minefield. Choose your description. The humble charger may be humble but it is no longer simple.
My partner purchased a brand new iPad Air 3 which failed (with a known / published by Apple) screen fault within 6 months. He returned it to the store where they replaced it with a device that came in a plain brown cardboard box. No Apple-branded packaging, wrapping of the item, warranty documentation or additional chargers and leads etc. He believes (but can’t know for sure) this replacement was a refurbished or ‘remanufactured’ item.
Less than 2 weeks later, he was playing an interactive game on the replacement iPad, when a strange noise occurred (akin to a light clicking sound) and the screen popped up/separated from the body, with the body (aluminium housing) bending slightly in the middle on the long sides.
He took the item back to Apple, who asserted that he must have damaged the device, or was responsible for the device’s failure (categorically untrue). They flatly refused to assist.
Under the ACL consumers have a right to a replacement that is identical to the original, i.e. equivalent to new in performance and reliability. The salesperson represented that the replacement iPad was equivalent to new in performance and reliability, however it clearly was not.
Used parts, including refurbished or remanufactured parts, can never be equivalent to new in performance and reliability. Basic engineering principles dictate as soon as an electronic part or product is put into use, it degrades. Once an electronic part or product is in use it is subject to load conditions, which includes operation of the device, humidity, dust, and shock (such as from dropping).
These load conditions cause degradation. Every used, refurbished, or remanufactured electronic part or product has been subject to load conditions. Because of these load conditions, used, refurbished, or remanufactured parts can never be equivalent to new in performance and reliability.
I have found three international court rulings including Moldanado v Apple and 2 in a Dutch court, related to this issue. The Dutch courts ruled that Apple could NOT replace brand new iPads with refurbs/remanufactured items and the US case resulted in a $95M settlement (out of court) - about to be finalised. I think the ACCC should take an interest here, and enforce the same ruling in Australia. In addition, if Apple supply consumers with refurbs/remanufactured items or items with used parts as replacements, this should be clearly marked on the packaging, so the consumer knows what they are receiving.
Refurbs/remanufactured items are NOT and never can be, the same as new.
I’m sure that many (in fact probably most) are absolutely fine, but when there is a problem, as in my partner’s case, the consumer is left without any recourse it would seem.
I do not believe this complies with our ACL and I would like to see a change in this regard. Bring on the class action!!!
Welcome to the forum Jaz,
You seem to know your way around the ACL.
Your next step is to write a formal Letter of Complaint citing the details in your post and delivering it to the shop manager where it was purchased and subsequently replaced. The shop owns your problem and if you are fobbed off to Apple, not their responsibility or problem, you might remind them about the Harvey Norman franchisees who got substantial fines for misrepresenting their responsibility.
You can cc: Apple’s legal department in Sydney but they usually step back to a ‘Customer manager’ whose job is to make you go away, not resolve your problem IME. The next contact would be the MD’s office in SG, all formal with the Letter of Complaint.
The crux of the matter is you had what you believe to be a refurb (which is their routine ‘repair’ process); and Apple claims ‘he must have damaged the device’. Without convincing supporting argument it becomes a he said she said. We had two Apple iPad refurbs in the past 3 years and both looked like a new product when handed over by the authorised Apple ‘repair’ shop but the serial listed each as a refurb/remanufactured unit. The ‘repair’ shop did not ‘return’ the packaging they came from Sydney back to the local shop so it could have been a ‘brown box’.
Without arguing that, historically a new part might be perfect and last the life of the product, or it might fail in the first minute, such are electronic parts. Anecdotally they usually fail sooner than later. OTOH a refurb has been ‘burnt in’ - eg field tested by a customer and the failure fixed. It can also be the case that a refurb had a symptom fixed but not the underlying problem. Thus refurbs are problematic for multiple reasons.
Please keep your topic updated with how it goes, or doesn’t
Welcome to the community. I have moved your post to an existing one which deals with this very issue. If you look back at the earlier posts, you will see that Apple’s response to warranty claims and their replacement goods are very hit and miss.
As @PhilT and previous posts point out, if you make formal representations citing the ACL to the retailer, Apple will often fold and provide replacements under warranty.
Good luck & let us know how you get on.
Hi @Jaz, welcome to the community and it is unfortunate you have had a consumer issue with Apple. There are other examples in the community where Apple tends to push the Australian Consumer Law to their own benefit, until they are challenged.
In relation to replacement items, the ACCC states:
Replacements and refunds
You can ask for a replacement or refund if the problem with the product is major.
Replaced products must be of an identical type to the product originally supplied. Refunds should be the same amount you have already paid, provided in the same form as your original payment.
The business may take into account how much time has passed since you bought the product considering the following factors:
- type of product
- how a consumer is likely to use the product
- the length of time for which it is reasonable for the product to be used
- the amount of use it could reasonably be expected to tolerate before the failure becomes noticeable.
For a major problem with services you can cancel the contract and obtain a refund or seek compensation for the drop in value of your services provided compared to the price paid.
Unfortunately the ACCC doesn’t indicate that a replacement should be new, it only needs to be ‘identical type to the product originally supplied’. This means that Apple may be within its rights to provide a reconditioned iPad Air 3. While it may be in their rights, it isn’t good customer service and benefits Apple, not the consumer.
I agree with the above advice and put it to them in writing. I would be asking for a full refund and not an exchange/replacement product. With a major fault, like that which has occurred with the iPad Air 3 , you are entitled to a full refund under the Australian Consumer Law. Use the wording on the ACCC website to assist you in drafting the letter and a claim for a refund.
When you have refunded monies, use this then to purchase a brand new iPad Air 3.
Hi
Thanks for the response - I really appreciate it!
Unfortunately we’re too far down the track now (I think?!) to ask for a refund for the original iPad which was replaced with the refurb.
My partner is headed to VCAT in early April, and needs to submit his final points of claim by this coming Monday.
I suppose we could always ask for a refund for the refurb replacement, but Apple is contemplating neither a refund nor a replacement. They have (essentially) said he was the cause of the damage to the replacement, when in actual fact the product failed - literally while he was holding it in his hands!
As you can imagine, we are extremely angry and upset about this state of affairs.
Anyway… we appreciate your suggestion.
A postscript regarding Apple providing a refurb rather than a new product.
IF Apple repaired ‘your’ defective product it would then essentially be a refurb. Because of often special equipment required to repair modern electronics (SMDs) it may need to be sent off-shore. An alternative is swapping the mainboard or a similarly large FRU and sending that FRU to the recycler or bin or to be resurrected at an off shore plant if that were economic. It could easily take a month with shipping.
Accepting a refurb reduces the turnaround time to a week or less as there is ‘warranty replacement stock’ in Sydney. A failed product goes to Sydney and a refurb is immediately sent back.
Demanding a new product? That is a wrinkle on the ACL ‘repair or replace or refund’ vs a repair warranty for a product that could be repaired but only with the necessary tooling.
It remains to be seen if companies such as Apple eventually dig in since they cannot economically have the equipment and skills to physically repair everywhere so what is better for the customer? A quick refurb? Waiting for their product to be repaired and returned?
Ideally Apple (and others) will move toward repairable designs yet consumers clearly want features that effectively defy easily being repaired.
I am happy I am not a product manager trying to balance it.
Well all we wanted was a decent iPad at the end of the day. If the refurb hadn’t failed, we wouldn’t be having this conversation and partner would undoubtedly be perfectly happy!
If you read the published material regarding Maldonado v Apple https://replacementdevicelawsuit.com/
there are allegedly many people in the US who were given inferior devices as replacements, where batteries failed quickly etc etc. Seems not all refurbs / remanufactured items are alike!
We had 2 refurbs for a reason 
Don’t buy a new Air 3, they have screen faults which are known, and identical to those of the same generation 10.5” Pro. I wouldnt touch one with a 10 foot bargepole these days. Mine has a bright spot about 2cm above the home button, its been there since about 4 months in. They werent interested. From time to time, the screen simply refuses to respond to any kind of touch, whether with finger or pencil. Its a dogs breakfast. Apple QC has gone to the dogs, and from here on I will stick with older devices, or switch to something else and Hackint0sh. I don’t think things have been right at Apple since Jobs died. Jobs ws about marketing and the user experience, Cook is about profits.
I’ve been gifted a 2012 Macbook Pro 15”. A couple of days ago I completed the current upgrades, extra RAM, new “feet”, and an SSD. Next will be a new battery, and a data doubler because I never use the DVD player and the slot can be used for another drive for storage. There are pretty much no user serviceable parts in the current crop so when your 2021 M1 Mac isnt enough to do what you want, you have to buy another. Planned obsolescence. Ridiculous.
I had similar random failures of an Apple iPhone. Apple Tech support didn’t want to know about it. The retailer had it checked, no problem found (as expected if they were not using it daily). Fair Trading registered a complaint but then said that the retailer had done what was required by law (the check). After 3 months of huge frustration the phone failed while I was at the retailer’s shopping centre. I took it in and asked them to witness its condition, after which I would take them to arbitration (the next step as advised by Choice and Fair Trading). After reviewing my previous emails to them they replaced it on the spot with a new iPhone. The whole saga left very angry and frustrated.
I merged your post into this existing topic about Apple service as it reinforces how Apple responds to customer problems. As you hinted, there is nothing more frustrating than a random failure and trying to get it taken care of. You were lucky it played up while at the shopping centre, leading to a good outcome.
My four year old IMac that has not had a great deal of use needs an $800 hard drive and flash drive. I had the Applecare for the first three years. My Macs typically last six or seven years and it does not seem fair to have a big bill for a manufacturing failure. It appears that the Fusion Drive that teh computer was built with is no longer compatible with the new operating system.
Has anyone had luck claiming the rights inherent in Australian Consumer law in such a situation?
Welcome to the Community @TrishFitz
I merged your topic into this existing one that includes a number of relevant experiences.
That is a common issue with technology, eg products made obsolete because of compatibility issues. It occurs with phones, TVs,and most everything driven by software.
$800 for a HDD replacement seems excessive - and even if it includes them restoring the software for you it still seems high. If you quoted Apple repair prices, since you have an old product have you checked independent repairers?
For $800 you might better consider if you can upgrade and possibly get some value for your old box from Apple or selling it for parts.
As for longevity, while not including trouble free, some guidance on expectations
If you can establish that the HDD failure is atypical and document it sufficiently well Apple has been known to help under the ACL. The Apple stores seem to have a discretionary period when they can ‘just fix it’ outside the warranty, but after that period a customer who feels their problem may or should be covered needs to write a formal Letter of Complaint and send it to Apple senior management (not just an Apple store manager).
Some posts in this topic that might be helpful include
Please let us know what you do and how it goes as it might assist others.
I cant help you with your rights etc, but these HDD failures are common with all computers. Depends on environmental factors.
BUT…
Curious about the statement the HDD is incompatible with the new mac os x updates. That’s wrong.
Its the motherboard and cpu that is not compatible, but the computer can function fine otherwise with an older system. That is, unless you are wanting to install a necessary Mac app that requires a more recent operating system to work, then its the motherboard and CPU that is the issue.
Fusion drives are just a normal platter HDD with a small ssd drive to give some speed, but they are prone to failure. You dont need to replace ‘2 drives’ in this instance only one.
$800 is very excessive - if they are replacing the drive with a single SSD of the same capacity (which is recommended) it could be costly.
But not all macs are equal. What I mean is for some Imacs its relatively easy and quick to replace the hard-drives, some are more fiddley and take a bit of tech time.
For the $800 you could buy a used iMac similar to what you have and sell the other for parts etc.
Or better to go to another tech for comparison - Apple charges like a wounded bull, so I’d go to a non apple computer tech.
Apparently ChromeOs Flex is breathing new life into ten year old computers and it’s highly secure. See Old PCs can find new life with Google ChromeOS Flex | Computerworld
Getting a bit OT for ‘Apple Service and Repair’ but to temper options toward potential ongoing usability rather than repair to original state, or upgrades
From the linked article:
If you’re stuck with a Windows or Mac-specific, mission-critical program, ChromeOS Flex isn’t the right solution. But, if your business just needs basic office software functionality and access to Software-as-a-Service (SaaS) programs, ChromeOS Flex could be just what you need — especially if you have a bunch of dusty PCs and Macs lying around.
An issue that causes many to pass on Chrome is that it is designed to be used online, not practical for some and not possible for others. Offline tasks on ChromeOS are mentioned
I remember years ago a computer purchased from dick Smith was, a lemon it was just before they were closing stores to go fully online. It never worked from the beginning. I wasn’t really aware my rights previously. I still couldn’t believe after getting it repaired by the repair company outsourced failed. I had another computer guy who eas better than previous repairs. I finally decided to buy another one. If i had known back then I would have gone through proper channels. Originally dick smith tried to help me out still didn’t work. Its commonly a battle for consumers
OT - not about Apple but about one’s rights.
You would have discovered Kogan did not buy Dick Smith (the business) or liabilities, just the brand name and online ecommerce site dicksmith.com.au. For perspective the liquidators got some dollars for secured creditors but Dick Smith’s customers?
Bottom line is your outcome would not have been any different if you had known at the time.
What’s the capacity of this drive?
