What a weird response to my posting. Hardly a “Welcome to the Community”. I am still unsure of what precisely you are driving at, other than a cynical negativism that everything is “inconclusive”. You claim that what I offered is “premature at best” as well as “misinformation”. Misinformation? That is an accusation of serious wrongdoing that I cannot let stand unchallenged.
I offered, after my necessarily shortish post, for further consideration a relatively short but readily accessible and minimally jargon-filled opinion paper that draws upon a few of many reputable studies in support of a thoughtfully constructed argument for more positive behaviours by many people, those in charge as well as those who are not. This is a forum for opinion is it not?
Your suggestion that pre-infection low Vit-D levels (including grave deficiency) can be somehow caused by a subsequently acquired SARS-CoV-2 infection is indeed a strange assertion that lacks logic. It is commonly said and even written elsewhere. And then repeated almost verbatim as an intellectually sound criticism of papers with which critics, like you, disagree.
I presented the converse anyway, namely (and this has been shown in multiple well-conducted studies) that low plasma 25(OH)Vit-D levels result in immune system impairment, and which then results in greater morbidity from viral challenge, and thus by inference from SARS-CoV-2 as well. Logical inference is entirely valid and, I need to add, necessary with a novel virus and for which there is no, currently proven with RCT, effective therapy and particularly for those who may get or are already sick at home. Multiply verified evidence takes a long time to acquire, too long for what we as humans are faced with still, after 18 weary months of medical and scientific contradictions, obfuscation and callous administrative groupthink.
Consider this as well. There is now much good evidence acquired over many years from many respected investigators and also from different but convergent fields of research as well as belief questioning and emotionally challenging revision, that the old belief in the toxicity of an excessive intake of supplemental Vit-D (historically defined and somewhat incorrectly as a ‘vitamin’ within the fat-soluble group) is not factually supportable anymore.
The Lancet is hardly a paragon of truth or unsullied opinion or robust research these days. Most importantly from a practical and humane perspective, how long will esoteric “jury” deliberations last in detached research institutes and at the Lancet while real live people/patients get sick? Rhetorical question - no need for answer. Waiting for “more investigation” as you and so many others suggest is a never-ending copout. How about making a decision. Change your mind/belief if new valid data arrives. I did. Curiosity and revision are how science works.
Any suggestion (call it advice perhaps?) to increase Vit-D levels with an oral supplement, and moreover that is now known to have, in practice, no contraindications for otherwise healthy people, and during winter, and at a time of increased public anxiety of any sniffle, and combined with a horrendous fear of catching THE virus, surely would be best thought of as a valid exercise in personal risk management. And to top it all, with a far-more-than-likely POSITIVE benefit on many fronts. Worth looking into for the curious.
I am very conscious of my ethical responsibility to “first do no harm” but I also regard it as a personal imperative in my twilight years to thoughtfully offer rational hope as well as options for self-help that are based on the best available knowledge at the time.
Now is such a time for offering hope, plus the rudiments of a personal risk assessment and surely some worthy positivity as well. In the enforced absence of any permitted at-home therapeutics for Covid-19, I feel compelled to challenge rampant despair, to encourage becoming pro-active and to start something at minimal cost - less than 5c/day. As an older elder than you appear in your photo, I also commend avoiding pointless cynicism and within a welcome to a new contributor. I’m done.
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It seems a very long post to suggest we all need to keep as healthy as we can. Some of us are more neglectful than others. Any health weakness can affect how our bodies cope with infection. EG The flu, pneumonia, Q-fever, etc. For all of these and others we need modern medicines, including vaccination as the best protection. It’s not always possible, with modern treatments highly effective for common infections.
Covid-19 is no different to any other virus in that it can infect healthy young Australians as well as those more vulnerable. There is a National program for vaccination of the majority of the Australian population, as the best response to the current pandemic.
Vitamin D levels are easy to monitor as we age through a GP ordered blood test. They are also easy to assure for most of us who have easy access to daily sunshine. Alternately a GP can offer appropriate advice.
No more than assertions need to be valid and accepted by the greater scientific and medical community.
From the Community guidelines
We encourage people to take an evidence-based approach to all discussion, which means you must present your source or your reasoning when posting to the Community.
Using the forum to spread misinformation or disinformation and failing to provide valid evidence from reputable sources to substantiate the claim(s) being made. This includes spreading information from sources that have been scientifically discredited or invalidated.
You appear to have have stated as fact what apparently remains research in progress at best, or theory or possibly misinformation at worst, and where the claim lies may be there or anywhere in between.
Taking any theory or early research and ‘running with it’ without question can work out well or very poorly. Vitamin D as regards general health is well established. That it protects one against COVID-19 has not been, to my satisfaction, substantiated by papers in journals rather than the one you linked in what is, at the end of the day, an open library.
You are welcome to your personal opinion, as are each of us, however the forum attempts to present hard evidence based information as best we can. ‘Both sides’ have now been presented.
48.7% of Victorians were Vitamin D deficient (<50nmol/L) in winter. 23.5% of all Australians were deficient. Deficient means it is clinically significant. See:
Nonetheless I offer, for those readers possibly interested in expanding their knowledge of Vitamin D and medical practice and some science too from old fogeys like me, the following long-form discussion. It is over 6 months old - ancient by today’s news cycle standards and accumulating data.
These experienced clinicians are my contemporaries with medical training. Skip to 24:30 for a serious question for those wedded to cynicism for its own sake to answer and to answer for. He asks, “How many lives could have been saved?”
More of us are at risk of being or staying Vitamin D deficient than we collectively realise. It is a serious public health matter with known potentially grave ramifications and probably more so in mid-2021. And it is not even mentioned as a known risk by all our now famous, narrowly focussed and most unimpressive health bureaucrats. To those reading this, please do at least one thing, get informed. My guess is that your gut feeling will tell you exactly what to do.
Hi @popybear, in relation to the ABS data, this is a little old and more current data from 2018 is available in an earlier post of mine.
I hadn’t the heard of Dr David Grimes and the articles and papers available online are interesting. Like with many matters relating to Covid, they are very fast moving and one shouldn’t rely on one source for all information about the disease. Dr David Grimes may be proven right or wrong in the future as more medical researchers test some of the hypotheses.
Notwithstanding this, it is well known that a nutrient deficiency or malnutrition can impact on the body’s immune system. It is likewise possible that a vitamin D deficiency could impact on a body’s immune system causing diseases like covid to be more severe. Using vitamin D as a treatment for covid may not be the intention of Dr David Grimes, but to ensure the body doesn’t have any malnutrition to ensure that it can better fight diseases like covid. Time will only tell if vitamin D deficiency is significant in the severity of covid infections and whether correcting this deficiency reduces the rate or percentage of severe complications in the general population.
I suspect that data will emerge in those countries where there is less vitamin D deficiency to determine whether there are on average, less severe covid complications. I suspect it won’t be as easy as that as these other countries may have malnutrition in other forms, which could impact on the body’s immunity.
For anyone contributing to any thread about Covid, it is also important to obtain or seek information from Australian experts in the field (CMOs, medical profession etc), as these experts review a wide range of information from differing sourced to provide advice which is current and in the best interests of all Australians.
On the matter of Vitamin D, has Choice examined the ingredients of supplements? I ask because I ran out of Vit D and as I have a very low amount in my body, urgently required some more.
The only one I found at the supermkt was Nature’s Way Vitamin D3 (1,000IU) 120 vita gummies.
Only the next day when I was about to open it I realised that the gummies were drowning in sugar.
What was worse was that there was no data on the jar of the amount of sugar.
An online search revealed one website indicating, from a 2011 study, that 2 gummies have 3.7 gm of sugar. This is meaningless to me as (a) I have no idea if the 2011 composition of the gummies mirrors the 2021 product and (b) 3.7 gm of sugar fro 2 gummies means nada if we don’t know how much the 2 gummies weight.
and the Community has a topic about it …
Thank. I had a look at earlier posts. How an item can be classed as “food”, be jam packed with sugar, be scant in its details of ingredients and yet appear alongside legitimate vitamins in Coles is bewildering.
As the FU Tube video from the Checkout inferred, keep away from such gummies.
I had no idea I was deficient until my GP at the time organised some blood tests (which also showed other things) and immediately instructed me to get onto Ostelin. Not the one with the extra calcium, just the regular one. I’ve been taking it ever since, and only just staying in normal range. That was over 10 years ago
Coles, Woolies and Chemist Warehouse all stock Blackmores Vitamin D which is what my GP takes himself and advised me to take a decade ago.
I take one a day and have had no more Vitamin D dfeficiencies in my blood tests.
Vitamin D tablets seem to come in a variety of formulations and sizes. This D3 + calcium + …. version is certainly on the large size for some. Are there better options?
No comment on the health claims. ‘Supports’ is one of those vague words that could mean anything.
The Blackmores product I posted above.
Small semi-clear capsules.
Much easier to swallow than horse tablets.
D3 is the one to go for I understand. When buying, one must ensure that the pill is no less than 1,000 IU which is the standard. Some brands have much lower active ingredients, especially the ones where D3 is an afterthought and included with the calcium tablet sold.
I just had a sneak peek at Woolies catalogue starting this Wednesday and they have 200 capsule bottles of Blackmores 100iU D3 for $14.
I know that a Vit D supplement can be purchased as a liquid. As it is a fat soluble vitamin the liquid will be a oil base (this is usually an omega 3 one) but the Ostelin one linked here uses orange oil.
Ostelin Vitamin D3 1000IU Liquid Supplement - Ostelin Australia : Ostelin.
Vit D (normally combined with calcium at least but also sometimes magnesium) can also be purchased as a loose powder.
Fatty livers can hamper production of Vit D within the body from sunlight exposure and as we get older the liver can be less efficient in the production. This often means those who are elderly require some supplementation.
Thanks for that. I regret that I cannot find my coles receipt for the gummies. If I had it I’d return it quick smart.
I find that if you don’t have your receipt, Coles will give you a gift card for the refund.
The only downside is that if you paid full price and they are on special when you get a refund, you will only get the special price.
We keep all our receipts for the last several months clipped together so we can usually find a receipt we require.
Good points you have there. Thanks. I will return to Coles.
I just visited Coles asking for a refund. It seems they have a new policy regarding returned goods without a receipt.
No refund for the $21 was offered as I can’t find the receipt.
In the absence of a receipt, the only path to a refund, exchange or voucher is for me to know when I purchased the Vitamins so that the cashier can find it in the store’s log of sales. I know I bought the Vitamins in early Sept, but have no idea when.
I will clearly have to put this down to a learning experience, unless I find the receipt somewhere.
Perhaps it varies between stores, or even individual service desk staff, as to what they think applies.
I have no problems up here since they resumed change of mind returns after the COVID-19 panic buying and hoarding dramas.
The last items I returned without a receipt were the mushrooms I posted about in another topic and I had no problems getting a refund.
Perhaps try a different Coles store to get your refund.
