Hi Geofff, Great that despite two spells in hospital you could identify the problems with an AVEO contract.
I hope the issues you identified that prevents an industry shake up, will now have to be addressed in light of many people speaking out and sharing their angst. Thanks for your contribution Geoff. I trust you are comfortably accommodated out of the retirement village sector.
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I agree. I watched the 4 Corners program. They seem to be interested in money not serving the elderly. There was a resident who fell and noone found him for 5 days! I would keep away from them.
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Well done. The 4 Corners report suggests you made the right decision.
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This is terrifying example of capitalism gone mad, how can it ever be morally reasonable for a company to exploit for profit people who are losing control of their lives (and for some their minds) and who are paying to be protected, respected and cared for not, to be exploited, humiliated and die in the middle of a nightmare.
This is barbaric and has been going on for a long time, our heartless lacklustre politicians should hang their heads in shame for failing to monitor or regulate the aged care industry that has grown so far out of control they get people to sign incomprehendable contracts that legitimise fraud, neglect and robbery and tell you âItâs a great deal, trust meâ
There are now dozens of terrifying stories of outrageous treatment experienced by vulnerable people in aged care facilities including drugging people into compliance and submission, nothing is being done because it is still happening. This is such a huge failure to act on evidence by our M.P.s that a large part of our community is seriously terrified by the prospect of being placed in aged fossil factory.
The Government does not care, AVEO does not care, we should stop calling any of it care because it looks more like economic rape.
My wonderful 90YO Mum came up with a far superior option. She has been on a number of boat cruises where the cost of the cruise per day was cheaper than what it cost to stay in most aged care homes. After a few cruises they start to offer very cheap deals.
So you could spend the rest of your life, sailing on a boat eating great food, drinking, travelling to new destinations, in the company of a large range of other older folk, being pampered on a vessel with gyms and theatres, music and shops and many sorts of fun and entertainment and do it cheaper than living in aged care, surely this would offer people more reasons to be alive and get out of bed.
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I am disgusted by the obviously biased report on aged care living presented by 4Corners. Having now read the Aveo responses to the allegations made, I am disturbed by the lack of homework done regarding the various points raised. It is ridiculous to complain about Aveo when the residents have not read their contract, or have not had their name put on the contract. I am also aware that people in the early stages of dementia (I have had two elderly parents in that situation) can appear extremely confident and somewhat belligerent, and have their erroneous assertions believed by all and sundry (including Emma Alberici). It seems that 4Corners has again opted to stir up public hysteria rather than âinvestigateâ the facts. The Twitter feed resulting from this report reminds me of the hysteria surrounding Lindy Chamberlain. Why were happy residents not included in this âreportâ?
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Thanks for your Very eloquent contribution john.cooper52. Hooray for your mum, long may she cruise.
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I had a look at moving into a retirement home, but after seeing this programme, there is no way that I would ever give these retirement homes money. I am disabled and my husband is my carer. Should anything happen to him I shall advertise for a live in housekeeper, as the Government is now encouraging people to stay in their homes. I couldnât believe the full page advertisement, which must have cost thousands, that one of these âCareâ Homes put in the weekend papers after the Four Corners Programme went to air where they gave their point of view.
As long as these companies are not forced by the Government to provide easily understandable contracts, then, sadly, nothing is going to change.
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Brava Linda, I hope you and your husband have many more happy years in your own home with more care support from local and government and others.
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Thank you Wendy. We shall do our best. We have recently adopted a new puppy and we are learning how to train her at our nearest puppy pre-school!. She has brought such joy and happiness to our lives, after the recent death of our 14 year old dog , and it gives us a reason for getting out of bed in the morning and she has also done wonders for lowering my blood pressure.
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I also think a dog makes a home and a happier family. At AVEO you could bring a pet but not replace one! Happy puppy training and enjoy meeting lots of doggy people in dog parks : )
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Those contracts need to be simplified and more black and white clearly they benefit the supplier not the consumer.
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It seems that retirement villages continue to do over oldies, even some who thought they did diligence.
I looked at them and the initial conclusion was they were not so much financially worse than a serviced flat in a resort-like building, and there seemed to be upsides in âowningâ your place with management taking care of maintenance and providing leisure facilities and support. But on second reading the gotchas started coming visible. Here are a few.
The summary is the retirement community industry could have much in common with the banking/financial industry in how they deal with their âcustomersâ and it is caveat emptor with big dollars to be had by the developers at you know whose expense (risk).
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Yes there does need to be a complete overhaul of retirement community fees etc as well as those charged by old peopleâs homes as well.Donât expect any inquiry now that the Liberals have been re-elected for another three years. Their mates in the industry will have free reign.
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There are so many different types that comes under different financial contracts, it is very confusing. I did find one that came under the Leasehold type - but - I found that when they calculate the capital gain, it is based on the selling price - buy in price. That is OK, but they also add what the resident has paid out for improvements in that capital gain, therefore increasing the cost of the exit fee. Has anyone had experience with this. It could make a big difference to the exit fee, and I donât think that is fair to the resident. It may be a bit more time in calculating the amount of the capital gain on the improvements made by the resident, but I feel the capital expenditure made by the residents in improvements, rightly should belong to them and not increase the exit fee.
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Hi @hmpk12, Your topic is germane to a few older topics so I combined them as a potential single resource and discussion.
My understanding, not being a local property tax lawyer but familiar with similar US tax laws, is that âimprovementsâ can be either property maintenance or property improvements. For the distinction an example is that if a property has a (keeping it simple and not splitting replacing a small veranda with a huge one, etc) veranda or A/C that is rebuilt, replaced or repaired it is maintenance. Adding a veranda or A/C to a property that did not previously have it is a capital improvement that adds to the basis for computing capital gains.
For those in the know, is that how our capital gains treatment works?
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There is insufficient detail in this example to know if there are any tax implications for the intending resident.
The family home (personal residence) is typically not subject to Capital Gains tax (IE it is exempt). There are many exceptions, mostly for larger land holdings, properties used for rental at some time etc.
How the retirement property operator has structured their business and their use of capital gains may not have any bearing in tax obligations of the occupant. Itâs just the way owner/operator is describing actions taken by the occupier. Likely to maximise the benefit to the owner/operator.
The agreements Iâve considered previously treat the occupier as a long term lease. The owner/operator appears to treat the property as a depreciating asset, and expects the occupier to cover their book losses. The real value of the occupiers leased property meanwhile may be much greater, and only realised by the owner operator at some later date.
There are various business arrangements per the ATO.
And more complex for CGT one option.
If this means nothing, it is simply an illustration. Itâs advisable to seek professional financial and tax advise before entering into any retirement village agreement.
The days of simple strata tittle ownership are long gone?
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Hi,
Recently I have considered about moving to retirement villagey which was owned by a non profit orangnisation. I am aware that there will be 30% exit fee and ongoing administration fee. The reason to purchase a retirement village unit are the facility has an age care unit, swimming pool, gym, a community with similar age group, the home care package can be delivered within the same group of staff. Most importantly, if one of us moves to age care, I can visit him every day without travelling far.
However I read the contract, I realise that it may take to up 6 months to return the money when we exit and paid 42 days more administration fee.
This term of conditions do make me think again.
I would like to ask the community what is your experience.
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Hi @mwycho, welcome to the community.
Several of the extended family have taken this option. They are mostly happy for now. We also have one instance where the last of the family resident passed. Over time there was little value left compared to what it would cost today to buy in.
Yes, there are some very attractive facilities available. Some services are paid for by fees. There are typically no assurances over time on these extras. Moving to another place/site is not easy and can be expensive. The owner/operator can also change, an outcome you may have limited control over.
Everyoneâs personal needs, financial and current housing arrangements vary. One size does not fit all.
Weâve personally avoided making that step after looking at the options. Itâs not for us.
Why? Firstly itâs important to seek independent financial advice that considers all your requirements. These should also include considering your current age, health, and family needs. A second point is to be fully informed legally of what you are signing. Something we would take to a solicitor regardless of before signing anything.
P.S.
There is always the option to upgrade your existing home to better suit aged care, or to move locally and downsize to an age friendly property. For some of us if we are able staying in the community near family and friends is most important. Our family are scattered all over Oz, hence we made a tree change, literally. They can come to us. Not ground level but accessible by ramp and wheel chair. We just need a wheel chair upgrade for the bathroom.
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While having no experience on retirement communities to date but knowing some who have, some look at them as 100% lifestyle choices, not as investments in any way, shape or manner. They attribute the costs as if paying rent where they expect no special return excepting for the amenities purchased month by month.
If one has sufficient assets and cash flow to do the latter it simplifies the decision making to oneâs objectives and personal values on âdoing it in a retirement communityâ or âdoing it oneselfâ. The entry fee is thought of as âbuyingâ security and council fees and whatever else gets included, in one go, even though it is not a 1:1 comparison.
If one desires or needs to include financial considerations, eg affording the ongoing monthly fees that usually rise over time vs capital being tied up w/loss of interest or growth vs wanting to bequeath something to children, vs potential relocation, they are less attractive at some point, possibly not until death, but something to consider.
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Thanks for the input.
I agree this is not an investment choice. Considering relocate to a suitable housing would also cost stamp duty. To find a new housing closer to major hospital would not be cheap nowadays.
Sell out and put extra money into super is also a reason.
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