New Washing Machine delivered and installed not working - small country town, what are the remedies?

Husband and I purchased a brand new top loader washing machine yesterday. It was delivered this morning while I was at work (my husband was home for the delivery). They took away our old machine. A front loader that was working but the bearings were well and truly on the way out.

Husband followed the instructions for initial use before washing anything… grinding noise and then seizing. He rang the business, they came back. They went away, they’re “waiting on a call from LG”. That call was at 11:08am (according to my phone log).

We’ve not heard back since then, it’s now 4:52pm. I’ve told my husband we want a replacement washing machine, not one that’s going to be ‘repaired’ when it hasn’t even performed yet. If it’s already got a problem, chances are it’ll have ongoing issues.

They can bring us a replacement, still in the box and unpack it in front of one of us, set it up and make sure it’s working.

Should add, I live in a country town. Apparently there is only one electrician in town who does washing machine repairs but the retail seller itself doesn’t have repairers. The only other option is machines are sent away for repairs and trips to the local laundromat.

Also, buying local, we only have one option so the choice of products is limited.

I’m pretty sure we’re entitled to a replacement given the price we paid and it simply not functioning.

How do you judge my chances of this happening?

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Sorry, you don’t get to choose at this stage. Clearly the washer is under warranty, but the remedy is up to the supplier and manufacturer.

With washing machines, they usually come with fixings to lock down the drum, and have to be removed before use. Sure that was done properly?

Have a look at the user guide. Some front washing machines have a locking mechanism for transporting which needs to be removed before using.

It’s a top loader machine.

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We’re hoping it was done properly. They delivered it and set it up.

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Top loaders can have locking screws/transit bolts as well. It is worth checking the user/installation guide.

These locks/bolts stop the drum vibrating or moving around in transit to prevent internal damage to the machine.

Do you have a washing machine make and model number so we can search on your behalf?

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The remedy for a major fault is NOT up to the retailer or manufacturer. They may say they have the choice but this in fact is incorrect information that you have posted. For a minor problem, then the retailer or manufacturer do have the right to select the remedy they provide.

If the machine fault was user error this is different to a major or even a minor fault, when it is caused by user error or misuse the cost is borne by the user/consumer. If the fault was not a user’s caused issue, then the responsibility to fix the problem is not the consumer’s (though they may have to spend their time to get the retailer or other responsible party to remedy the situation).

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Some do. Just to note:

The assumption here is having paid for delivery and install, any error or omission by the delivery team is also the responsibility of the retailer (ACL) who sold the product. It is part of the service if that is what was agreed as part of the order.

It’s important to note that the ACL (Australian Consumer Law) places the purchaser in a stronger position when seeking remedy directly from the retailer (seller). The retailer cannot pass on their responsibility to LG, although some retailers do attempt to make it a warranty issue between the customer and manufacturer. We once had an issue with a new expensive ceiling fan which when unboxed by our installing electrician was found to be damaged. The retailer when we attempted to return the fan initially refused to supply a replacement saying it was up to us to contact the manufacturer to obtain warranty. We refused and advised the retailer what the ACL required. A replacement new fan or a full refund. Making that point politely in store and refusing to move on eventually delivered the right outcome. We have not been back to that retailer since.

Having lived in small regional towns, experience of retailers varies. This includes those who may not be in the local town, but offer to sell and deliver (for a premium) locally. It’s important to understand the rights one has and insist on the supplier meeting their legal obligations under the ACL. If the machine was incorrectly installed, irrespective of who was arranged for that work, it’s the retailer who was paid to supply and install who must remedy. One’s chances of getting the best outcome are improved when one is prepared and knows their rights. Worth a read if not done so previously.

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It is NOT incorrect information I posted. There is nothing at this stage to indicate a MAJOR fault.

That will be determined when the fault is investigated. Just because something stops working does not indicate that it cannot be fixed. Often very easily.

If the machine cannot be fixed within a reasonable time ( say if parts had to come from overseas and repair may take months), then the buyer can demand as the remedy either a replacement or refund under the definitions of what the ACL says about a MAJOR fault.

For now, the supplier and/or manufacturer has to provide a REMEDY, and it is up them as to what that will be.

The remedy you have stated “is up to the supplier and manufacturer”. There is no distinction in your statement as to what choices and outcome will result from what level of fault this may be. The ACL is not that cut and dried and so your statement is incorrect. As I stated in my post the level of fault, and possibly if the consumer created the fault, then there are different levels of outcome. The retailer or manufacturer will most likely send a repair person as the washing machine is too heavy for the buyer to return, they will try to determine what the fault is and if found to be a major fault the buyer gets the choice of outcome. Only if it is a minor fault will the seller or manufacturer be able to set the remedy and only if they undertake the repairs, refund, or replacement, in a timely manner.

No this timely fix only applies if it is about a particular definition of one of the definitions of major faults. The ACL is quite specific about what happens with a major fault (and for most no time frame of repair is mentioned).

" Available solutions

When a business sells a product with a major problem, or a product that later develops a major problem, it must give the consumer the choice of a:

  • refund, or
  • replacement of the same type of product.

A refund should be the full amount the consumer paid for the product. The business must not deduct an amount from a refund to take into account the use a consumer has had of the product.

Refunds should be provided in the same form as the original payment, unless the business and consumer agree otherwise.

A consumer can also choose to keep the product but be compensated for the drop in value caused by the problem."

So when a seller sells a product with a major fault or it later develops a major problem, it isn’t repair time that determines what the remedy is for a number of those reasons. The buyer has the choice when the major fault is discovered, and these are not at all based on the time frame to repair it.

The other reason that causes a major fault is when an item “can’t be used for its normal purpose, or another purpose the consumer told the seller about before they bought it, and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time”. This is just one of the major fault definitions and has no bearing on the other major fault reasons.

This reasonable time frame is also used when a minor fault cannot be repaired by the seller or manufacturer in a reasonable time or cannot do the repair. This is explained in the ACL minor fault section

" When the business can’t or won’t fix a minor problem

If the business can’t or won’t repair or fix the problem within a reasonable amount of time, or at all, a consumer is entitled to:

  • get it done somewhere else, with the business paying the consumer back for the reasonable cost of the fix or repair
  • get a refund or replacement instead
  • keep the product or cancel the service contract, and be compensated for the drop in value caused by the problem.

What is a ’reasonable’ amount of time for a business to fix a problem will depend on the nature of the product or service. For example, it may take longer for a repairer to attend a house to fix an installed dishwasher than for a pair of pants to be repaired in-store."

For now, the retailer or manufacturer needs to determine what the level and reason for the fault is. If it is major they don’t get to choose the remedy. The buyer has the choice in a major fault situation. If it is minor and the retailer or manufacturer can make it good in a reasonable time, the retailer or manufacturer will get the choice. If not able to be repaired in a reasonable time or the retailer or manufacturer cannot or will not repair it, then the buyer gets the choice of remedy… If the fault is caused by the user, the retailer or manufacturer can recover any costs they have outlaid to determine the fault and if they have repaired the item then they can recover that cost as well.

As noted by @mark_m the retailer should be the one the buyer should deal with preferentially over the manufacturer. If a third party caused the issue, it will depend on if they were employed and by whom, that will determine who to approach for reparations as it may be the third party’s insurance or the third party’s own funds that are required to fund the repairs or replacement… If a buyer used a friend to carry out the work there may be no ability to recover any cost unless they have an insurance policy that covers accidental damage. In this particular case the install was done by the retailer’s employees or by third party contractors to the retailer.

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Again, your statement that my assertion is incorrect. It is NOT. It is what the ACL actually says.

Here is more succinct information from the ACCC.

Quote start:

Rights when consumer guarantees aren’t met

Consumers are entitled to a solution of a repair, replacement or refund if a product or service they buy doesn’t meet one of the basic rights. These basic rights are known as consumer guarantees.

The solutions are collectively referred to as remedies. What remedy the consumer is entitled to generally depends on:

  • what was bought (whether the problem is with a product or a service)
  • the seriousness of the problem (whether the problem is major or minor).

In some situations, the consumer gets to choose the remedy they prefer.

A business has the right to assess the product or service before they provide a remedy.

Quote end:

Annotated with my bolding of relevent text.

Now onto major faults.

Quote start:

What makes a product problem major

A major problem means the product:

  • is unsafe
  • is very different from the description or sample
  • has either one serious problem or several smaller problems that would stop someone buying the product if they knew about them beforehand
  • can’t be used for its normal purpose, or another purpose the consumer told the seller about before they bought it, and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time.

Quote end:

Again my bolding. What is considered ‘reasonable’ is undefined.

I suppose it is possible that different people can look at the same thing and see it differently. I suppose that is why these things end up in courts to decide.

They, the retailer or manufacturer depending on who the buyer approached, have a right to assess, after which assessment the problem is defined as major, minor, or caused by user. Assessment is not remedy. If after assessment it was determined to be user fault then the user is responsible to pay for the assessment. If user fault and the item was also repaired, then the user is responsible for the repair costs as well.

Next points I have already covered and three out of the four reasons do not include a time to repair or make good reason. So if the washing machine has a serious fault or a number of smaller ones that the user was not aware of before purchase and they would not have bought it if they had known about it, then they are entitled to make their own choice of remedy…no time to repair is required for the buyer to assert their rights in this circumstance. If the machine was unsafe then no time to repair is required before a buyer can assert their rights to the remedy they chose. If someone purchased as described by the seller a xyz belt in gold and they got a xyz belt in white this is a significant difference and so a major fault. Some examples are provided in regards to the “very different from the description or sample” by Consumer Affairs Victoria: "

Case Study

The description of products must be accurate

Example only (outcome may differ in individual cases):

James orders a red scarf online, but the scarf delivered is hot pink. The product is significantly different to the description – it has a major problem, so James can ask for a refund.

Case Study

Products must match samples

Example only (outcome may differ in individual cases):

Rosa is a furniture seller. She uses a sample of fabric to sell a couch to Jake, but the couch she supplies is a different colour from the sample. This is a significant difference, so Jake can ask for a replacement. Rosa can easily keep a sample of the fabric, to allow Jake to compare it to the couch supplied."

The making good timeline one applies to say a user wanted a washer that added brightener automatically and they asked for this when purchasing, when they got the machine it was unable to automatically dispense the brightener. Then the buyer is required to give the retailer a reasonable time to easily fix the issue…the term “easily” is important. If they can’t make it good easily or cannot do so in a reasonable time then it becomes a major fault. If for another example someone bought a colour multi-function centre but it won’t scan in colour but everything else works and it will scan in monochrome, then a retailer would probably have the right to have reasonable time to “easily” make the problem good. Again if they fail to provide an easy fix or they take too long then it becomes a major fault.

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Ok. You have totally trumped my posting of the actual wording of the ACL and consumer rights by talk of scarves and furniture. And belts? But no relevance of course.

So let’s get back to the issue at hand. A brand new washer that has failed at first use. And what to be done. Let the people responsible look at the problem. That is first base.

Remedy comes after that. And that remedy is guided by the ACL, which I have posted key bits for others to look at. Or, go and look up the whole thing.

There are so many topics in the Community about consumer rights to refunds, or replace, or repair that I have the ACL on instant lookup.

I’ve made an edit to the topic heading as it will make it easier for others in a similar situation to find the discussion.

It’s often said “Hope springs eternal”.
When it comes to the ACL it’s a consumers right to expect a product and or service will meet all the consumer guarantees. Those rights can be support through the state and territory Govt consumer FairTrade or equivalent organisations.

“Hopefully” the retailer has responded promptly to determine the nature of the fault.

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Okay.

Firstly “first use”.

The manual gives instructions on what to do before using the machine to launder clothes. Use this cycle, put this amount of laundry detergent in, press start. These instructions were followed, but the cycle barely started when it was clear there was a problem.

Now the other thing. This was floor stock on display. No stabilising foam in the drum. The machine is supposed to come with stabilising foam in the drum to be used whenever the machine is transported. They delivered it without the foam. So I am pretty sure its probably been damaged in transit.

I don’t doubt they possibly do that regularly. None of their floor stock has packaging in the drums. They possibly take their chances that “she’ll be right, mate”.

So now I have a fancy brick, I’m inconvenienced because I can’t do my laundry and will have to go to my son’s place to wash, fitting all this around his schedule and ours with work and other commitments.

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Thanks for checking and confirming.

It appears it could be the case. If the drum moved significantly in transit, springs holding the drum in position may have detached causing a grating/grinding sound then the drum spins as it would be moving like it is unbalanced or and detached parts are rubbing against moving parts. It is more likely the later as most modern machines shutdown when off balance is detected.

Another reason can be, being floor stock someone looking at the machine could have put something in it. Say like a child dropping a coin in the gap between the inner and outer drum. This could also make a lot of noise during its operation.

As the locking mechanism for transit has been removed, and it is making a strange noise, the machine is faulty. Could be a simple repair such us reattaching spring connections or removing a foreign object through to a major fault. Either way, the retailer is responsible for resolving and they are required to make good the issues you are having.

Make sure you tell the retailer this and also state that under the Australian Consumer Law you expect any out of pocket expenses, such a fuel used, to be reimbursed. Keep records of mileage you have done and I would be asking for compensation based on the Australian Tax Office car mileage rates. This hopefully will get them moving quickly to resolve.

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So we went to store after it opened on my way to work. They were in the process of testing a 14kg of same brand. They have come to conclusion our machine shouldn’t be making noises like it is.

They will replace it however they will be loaning us a smaller upright because they wont receive stock until mid-May. The exchange for the loaner is happening today.

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Good to see the positive response shared.

When the new replacement is delivered in May feel welcome to share how the new WMC goes. Assume the local retailer is an independent or franchisee of a national chain?

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Bi-Rite

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I had a similar issue recently with a frontloader delivered with damage, Could have been considered minor but for 2500$ or so that wasn’t on. I wasn’t keen on having someone rip it apart and ‘fix’ it when it arrived damaged - and the retailer and supplier didn’t hesitate to replace it outright - it took a while, I had things going on and the new unit took a while to ship 1500km to my remote location in a small-ish (30k) town - used the old unit with the fault for 3 months - new unit now installed and working fine as far as I can tell.

Doesn’t hurt to ask/push for replacement when its either dead out of the box or an early life failure - regardless of rights under law. Glad your retailer came to the party also …

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