Mazda

⚠️ Buyer beware alert!
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Mazda sells a vehicle with an aftermarket entertainment unit fitted by mazda and sold in all their vehicles.
The entertainment unit is not maintained, firmware updates are not provided for the mazda version of the Alpine entertainment unit.
The Dealer where I purchased said they couldnt help
I asked them to get mazda rep to call me, Mazda refused. I must deal with the delership
I eventually contact Alpine which took some months as they do not have direct contact with customers and deal through their dealers only.
The delader must be the selling dealership but they refused to axcepr responsibility as the unit was fitted by mazda australia

I have been dealing with Alpine who have gone back to Japan as these units were specificly programmed for Mazda. The public available unit has had firmware updates to 5.00, the mazda unit is still at 2.00

Obviously Alpine Australia sees there is a problem but I am just being messed with here.

The vehicle is now a few years old and still under new car warranty.

Why would MAZDA refused to speak with me?

I refered the matter the NSW Fair trading and Mazda called me. They said that they would not do anything and not to ask again.

I heard nothing else from NSW Fair Trading or Mazda. I tried calling NSW Fair Trading and they said they couldnt really do anything if Mazda refused.

What is going on here? How can these manufacturers treat Australians this way. We have laws to protect us but tell me how they do protect us if manufacturers refuse to abide by them?

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The manufacturer is Alpine. They are responsible for software maintenance. Which may or may not be available for the particular model installed in the Mazda.

But Mazda should be able to inform you who to deal with as they install the units in their cars. Alpine should have dealers in Australia who handle upgrades and repairs. But it may not be something coverered by any warranty from Mazda.

You get the same thing with smart TVs. They come pre-installed with lots of other party apps for things like streaming or games, but not the TV maker’s problem if they stop working.

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NSW Fair Trading are only one step under ACL (Australian Consumer Law) Repair, replace, refund, cancel | ACCC and they are mostly toothless when a business refuses to comply. The next step is to go more formal in your approach and write a formal complaint letter to the Dealership and/or Mazda requesting the outcome you want and giving them a reasonable time to respond (14 days would seem reasonable but you may wish to set 21 or 28 days). If they fail to respond favorably then you can apply to the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal (NCAT) https://ncat.nsw.gov.au/, for them to make a determination. Warranties are extra rights that businesses offer but the warranties do not replace your rights under Australian Consumer Law, they are additional to those rights.

I strongly suggest you contact some competent legal advice service before proceeding any further, they will be able to guide you and help you prepare your responses. There are free Consumer Legal Services in all States and Territories and we have compiled a list on this site of some of them or you may wish to use a paid service of your choice. The Community list is at Free Legal Advice Centres

The ACCC and CHOICE both provide form letters to help you.

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What is the issue with the head unit? Is it faulty or is it because you found out the Alpine sold units have a different version number?

If the issue is that the firmware has different version number to that which can currently bought by Alpine, then there will be little you can do.

Many devices which can be bought have firmware which isn’t updated or can’t be updated when new versions are released. Examples include Android devices, PC operating systems, TVs etc.

As you have indicated that the Alpine head unit firmware is specifically developed for Mazda, if there isn’t an update to the Mazda firmware available to be installed by Mazda or the newer version can’t be installed, there is nothing which can be done. If there was a newer version available through Mazda, they could charge you for updating the firmware - many manufacturers do this especially for updated mapping.

Also, the firmware version number for the Alpine unit and the unit firmware specifically developed Mazda may have no relationship with each other. It is possible they run with separate and different version numbers.

Edit: The only time you would have some recourse is if Mazda specifies under their warranty that they will maintain version numbers of a vehicle’s heat unit to the current version of the OEM manufacturer. In your case, Alpine. This is unlikely to be the case since you have indicated that the firmware for Mazda has been specifically developed for Mazda.

What you are asking sits outside the Australian Consumer Law. If it sat under the ACL, this would mean consumers could ask for any upgrades to a vehicle during the warranty period, if a newer vehicle had something they wished to have on the older vehicle they own. This isn’t the purpose of ACL and why you won’t succeed taking it further.

If the head unit has a faulty, then Mazda may be required to provide a resolution under the ACL/manufacturer’s warranty. From what you have indicated, this isn’t the case.

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As is commented on in numerous other topics our ‘consumer protections rules’ apply to companies willing to abide by them. There are precious few penalties for those that do not. The ACCC only steps in for the most egregious breaches. The consumer is left to go through their state xCAT and some businesses know few will bother and some ignore the ‘summons’, have and pay a default judgement against them, and move on with the same disdain for their customer and the system. Sometimes a business will attend and has been briefed by counsel so the consumer is often at a disadvantage so it could go either way. Sometimes the penalties in worst case are such a small fraction of their [ill-gotten] profits it is a cost of business for them and hardly a deterrent.

What has been improved between 2.0 and 5.0 and in a practical sense does it matter? Not that everyone should not have the latest release. If it is something like a new feature (such as Android Auto or Apple Carplay) along the way it could even be a licensing issue for Australia where Mazda declined to pay and thus it is not going to happen.

As an aside, built-in GPS units are notorious for having expensive and outdated mapping and the manufacturers have done jack-all forever. That is why built-ins (older cars) usually have years out-dated maps while one could buy a portable with lifetime map updates included for less than the price of a single map upgrade for a built-in. When I bought my last new car the most current map offered and installed was already 2-years out dated compared to that available for a portable from the same GPS company, to make a point.

We have the perception of laws that protect us and sometimes they work a treat. In some industries, vehicles being noteworthy, they are rarely worth the time to read their preambles as some post. For some classics search youtube for ‘I bought a Jeep’.

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This appears to be the case as the specs for the Mazda unit and the Alpine unit are different:

The Mazda head unit contains additional firmware which is ‘Suitable for Factory Navigation Installation’. The Alpine unit doesn’t support such functionality.

Firmware version 5 has the following release notes:

  • Adds ability to add 2 additional Camera Inputs using KCX-C250MC (sold separately)
  • Add USB Media playback functionality to USB2

However, upgrading the firmware to v5 could result in the loss on any factory navigation installation functionality.

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Using your links, one is ‘suitable for…-F309E’ and the other apparently has ‘DAB±F309E’ or at least the capability. That suggests there may be no difference for integrated GPS support, reinforced by the specifications for each unit as well as their differing user manuals.

My semi-educated guess is there is a contrived product difference with two SKU numbers for the same product in order to differentiate support for the Alpine versus the Mazda installed Alpine variants. However to add confusion their respective user manuals are 84 vs 92 pages suggesting that even with some formatting differences it requires an in-depth rather than my cursory comparison to get closer to the truth of whether there are functional differences or just SKU differences – and even that might not address whether there may be electronics differences a consumer could not ‘see’.

Products meant to be integrated usually have standardised interfaces so an electronics difference, while possible, would be unexpected as it adds complexity to design, manufacture, inventory, and ongoing support for what purpose - if there is a difference only Alpine and Mazda know why.

I could imagine Mazda contracted Alpine for some number of years and that expired not renewed, and the ‘problem’ may be that simple.

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These are all guesses. We can only go off what is on the Alpine website.

If Mazda installs their own own nav system, there us a high likelihood the firmware will have different coding to support this uploading. Whether the hardware is different is again speculation. It could be possible they are the same, with slightly different firmware, don’t know and would be guessing.

Irrespective of this, Mazda nor Alpine have any obligation to update the firmware version, unless it was something covered under the warranty or possibly the time of purchase.

It appears that Alpine gives instructions on how to update the firmware on their website, but it would not be recommended for a Mazda unit as:

Unless Alpine can confirm that it won’t result in loss of functionality, it should not be attempted. Maybe reading between the lines, it could be why Alpine nor Mazda won’t provide any indications it is possible for someone to do it themselves.

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Did the purchaser buy the car in anticipation and advice by the seller that the Alpine unit was firmware upgradable, was it sold as state of the art or similar reference/inference to a superior or high quality unit with a perceived lifetime equivalent to the remainder of the vehicle? If the expectation and advertising of the vehicle was such that a purchaser has an expectation/belief that the unit is of a type that would be kept reasonably current for the vehicles warranty lifetime e.g. that firmware updates would be available and installed. If so they may have a case under ACL. I am not a legal expert and so my advice is to seek expert/decent legal advice from a person or business that is trained and able to provide proper legal guidance in this or similar consumer matters.

All too often, with cars and often other goods, there are included parts of the product that are not maintained in line with the remainder of the product. As an example noted by @PhilT of the GPS maps included in the vehicle not being kept up to date as one should be able to expect in a new car purchase, it is sometimes even out of date by years compared to the date the car was manufactured. If everyone accepts that an entertainment/GPS unit purchased as part of a car purchase is out of date and as such may be useless for part of all of it’s intended function, why are they then charged as part of the purchase for that obsolete equipment

Mazda sell the Mazda Connect add-on with the following caveat in regards to interoperability with smartphones

Optional Features are only available on specific carlines and models

These devices have been tested in accordance with Mazda interoperability standards. Overall device compatibility as well as individual feature operation and functionality is dependent upon the devices software version, operating system and settings as well as the wireless service provider and any installed third party applications. Individual user experience may vary. Mazda Moter Corporation is not responsible for software irregularities or hardware issues devices may experience that are outside of our testing scope. As new device software versions become available, test compatibility results may change.
Please check these results regularly.

They sell the product with the following advertising

Communication. Entertainment. Connectivity.
This is what infotainment should be.

This is Mazda Connect. And it’s all yours.

In regards to navigation their advertising is

Whether you’re taking a family holiday, travelling for work, or going out for quick cup of coffee, your vehicle’s navigation system will help you arrive easily at any destination.

Update My Maps

Access to the most current maps and traffic flow information will help your navigation system function more efficiently and accurately. One year of map updates is included with your navigation system to ensure you are always using the most up to date information. Learn more.

Key features

  • 2D or 3D perspective for landmarks and city views
  • Traffic patterns based on historical data
  • On-screen speed limits
  • Advance notice of upcoming exits and appropriate driving lane at junctions
  • Guaranteed map updates free for one year
  • Add Connected Services for access to live fuel prices, weather updates, real-time traffic and advanced local search

For the entire product it is similar ‘high quality and up to date functioning’ advertising. Perhaps this will be a case that may force Mazda to pay compensation for a failure to maintain the product in a manner consistent with their product descriptions even if some consider it puffery. Again, and I strenuously advise this, competent legal advice should be sought to be sure of ACL rights before taking any further steps.

PS Mazda provide a Mazda Toolbox software package to update the system, some updates for some systems require the update to be performed by a Mazda dealership. For more info see the following link (it will not show a preview of the page using the address but it does take you to the site)

https://infotainment.mazdahandsfree.com/howto-manageupdates

The disclaimer on the site states

— For customers who use Mazda Connect version 55.00.650, an update for your CMU system is available for download at your dealership. Please update your system before downloading the newest Gracenotes package.

CMU stands for Connectivity Master Unit, which controls the video and audio signals to the infotainment system.

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OT but a correction of sorts

Checking our market Tomtom has abandoned ‘us’ for hardware, excepting built-in units it provides to manufacturers and periodic map updates. All manufacturers seem to have stopped selling portable products that include lifetime map updates. Are there any now?

Manufacturer dependent for price they have made map updates independent profit centres rather than bundled into a product, and without a price reduction. eg a significant price increase at the end of the day.

As roads are built and changed I can imagine an increasing number of ‘lost souls’ relying on old devices with old inaccurate maps as a result. Maybe their underlying goal is to sell subscription services to phone GPS apps that also have current mapping as a better business model?

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This is different to the Alpine system subject of the original post.

The Connect Version could be the version of the software within the Alpine Unit (if it is one of the apps installed on the unit by Mazda), and may have its own separate upgrades to the Alpine Firmware.

It isn’t puffery and there isn’t any indication of a failure. Mazda does not suggest that they are responsible for firmware update during the warranty period. The information presented is they are responsible for map updates for the first 12 months of ownership.

What are Mazda supposed to do and what are they supposed to upgrade?

The Alpine website clearly states that the updated Firmware Version 5.0.000 is for ‘iLX-507A / iLX-F509A / iLX-F511A’.

The Alpine website does not indicate that ‘Firmware Version 5.0.000’ is suitable for or compatible with iLX-507A BT-50 (the Mazda head unit model number).

It appears that Firmware Version 5.0.000 isn’t supported for installation with iLX-507A BT-50. As indicated above, a owner of iLX-507A BT-50 could attempt (it is strongly not recommended) to install Firmware Version 5.0.000 on their iLX-507A BT-50, but this could result in loss of any applications which Mazda have installed. At worst, it could brick the head unit.

Mazda and Alpine won’t install a updated firmware version which isn’t supported in iLX-507A BT-50.

There isn’t any applicable compensation as there isn’t any available updates. Even if a firmware update was specifically developed for iLX-507A BT-50, Mazda or Alpine have no obligation to install the update (as indicated above, it would set a precedence for every manufacturer and retailer which supplies equipment with firmware). If the update was available and a customer wished to have it installed, Mazda would be in a position to rightfully charge for the privilege - they might chose to do so or not. This last paragraph is all hypothetical as an update for iLX-507A BT-50 doesn’t appear to be available so there isn’t anything to update.

A consumer also shouldn’t get compensation when they see that a product with a different model number has an upgrade (or different features to their own). Especially when features may be unique to the model in question.

This is why the Office of Fair Trading, Mazda and Alpine haven’t agreed to the request to update the head unit version. Taking it further is pointless unless one can prove that Alpine or Mazda provide support for Firmware Version 5.0.0.00 on iLX-507A BT-50 and they are responsible for the upgrade of the firmware version. There isn’t any evidence that this exists.

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As a general observation on connected smart devices and software updates/compatibility.

Consumers long suffered with mobile phone OS updates and App reliability. Premium models whether Android or IOS based, arguably now set a standard for longevity. In particular the mapping and navigation provided for free with each OS. Even as new models are released continuing support for yesterdays tech meets the expectations of most consumers.

For the motor industry manufacturer’s smart accessories or included offerings (standard features) offer similar appeal. It looks like the promise (considering the lived experiences of others) is not to be relied upon. The average life of an Australian light motor vehicle is greater than 10 years. Many are still on the road approaching twice that. Should the reasonable life of any included software or manufacturer accessory be equal to that expectation, all features fully supported?

For EV buyers, a potential challenge as vehicles age. Consumer experience is after a number of years most smart devices are incapable of keeping up with software and technology change.

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I don’t even know what unit that @rowdy1961 is discussing as there are many variations (link is to after market replacements of the header units)

A product is sold as being high quality, up to date (maps or whatever). It isn’t the purchaser’s fault that Mazda have not kept up to date and your or my opinion here is not going to resolve if they have a case or not. @rowdy1961 should seek good legal advice if they should go forward with a claim. If we all sit back and let businesses sell products or services that are sold as quality and even cutting edge (not saying Mazda have made this claim but other businesses have) and provided good money in expectation of at least some on-going service, to have that service or product then not be supported in line with the quality claims is wasteful. Why bother paying for such products, ask for the product to not be included with a subsequent price reduction but that I strongly doubt that would get anyone very far.

As to compensation, it doesn’t mean because “There isn’t any applicable compensation as there isn’t any available updates” holds up in a Court or Tribunal…in fact the fact that there isn’t any updates may be the reason that compensation is applicable as this may depend on how the goods or services were portrayed by the business or the manufacturer as per

"There is a guarantee that goods are of acceptable quality if they:

  • are safe, durable and free from defects
  • are acceptable in appearance and finish
  • do everything that they are commonly used for.

When deciding whether goods meet this guarantee, you need to consider the nature of the goods,
the price, and any information provided directly by the seller or the manufacturer, or on packaging or
promotional material".

You or I don’t know whether that is a case that can or would be mounted and won in this instance. You or I may have tried something in the past which has failed, that doesn’t mean that a new case based on it’s own merits will necessarily fail and is why legal advice from a competent expert in this Consumer Law field should be sought before taking further steps.

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What, if anything, is the defect to be fixed? Inability to upgrade something to add a new feature is not a defect.

The OP can maybe comment further rather than see pointless posts from others about legal action.

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These are units available across the Mazda range.

@rowdy1961 post was about the Alpine unit specifically installed and setup up for Mazda. Alpine only has one such model, that outlined and linked above. The Firmware version for the Apline headunit (not that for Mazda) is also version 5.0.000, which was outlined in the original post as being the issue.

It will be a waste of money and ill-advised.

As I indicated above,

If one wants a unit with Firmware version 5.0.000, it would be cheaper to buy another Alpine head unit compatible with this firmware version, such as iLX-507A, noting that any features/apps installed by Mazda won’t be on the head unit nor won’t possibly be installable.

The head unit is of acceptable quality. There isn’t any information to suggest that the unit is defective, has an unacceptable appearance of finish nor do everything they are commonly used for.

The issue is neither Mazda nor Alpine will upgrade the firmware to version 5.0.000 - which I indicated:

Looking at the Alpine website, updating firmware is a relatively straightforward process when a updated version is available/supported for a particular model. It doesn’t make sense that neither Mazda nor Alpine would refuse such a request if it was practicably possible. Possibly the issue it that neither Mazda nor Alpine have clearly stated why the upgrade to firmware version 5.0.000 can not occur on iLX-507A BT-50.

There isn’t anything to install/update and there seems to be an impression that firmware version 5.0.000 can be installed on model iLX-507A BT-50 because it is available for model iLX-507A. This might be in err and an incorrect assumption.

Possibly it hasn’t been clearly communicated by Mazda nor Alpine - which is a criticism/feedback worth communicating back to Mazda if this has been the case. If they had, it may have prevented a lot of heartache and grief by trying to take the matter further without success.

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Excepting if it is, as I speculated, a licensing issue between Alpine and Mazda. Software is licensed as has been posted by many in many topics. Licenses are not usually perpetual nor carte blanc. A few years ago (pre-ACL) I had a Fujitsu notebook that had a fingerprint reader. When Windows got updated from 8 to 10 the fingerprint reader ceased to function - Fujitsu refused/declined/did not update their license to cover my then 2 year old notebook and from Fujitsu ‘so sad too bad, buy the license [yourself] if it was important’ to me. The license would have been near half the cost of a new notebook.

The issue not mentioned is what is the advantage of R5.0 compared to R2.0 for the OP, and other than having R5.0 what difference does it make and what if anything does it fix? Is there anything that doesn’t work in the R2.0 product?

Neither function was likely sold with the vehicle and Mazda thus would have no liability to provide either.

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Model iLX-507A BT-50 is one I have found that a Alpine head set with a similar model number - where the Alpine model iLX-507A has a Version 5 firmware update, but there isn’t an updated firmware version update for the Mazda model number. Noting there could be other models with similar status. It is also worth noting that Mazda models don’t appear to be available through the Alpine website, possibly they are only available through Mazda as they contain additional software for Mazda vehicles, and for Mazda to install their own audio, mapping or vehicle related applications.

It is more likely that Alpine can’t sell Mazda spec headsets to anyone.

Alpine also raises head set compatibility issues with head sets such as iLX-507A BT-50.

There is a Alpine model which specifically says the updated firmware is incompatible with Mazda BT-50 head units. I haven’t gone through each head set model to see if others are similar. Possibly only Alpine could confirm this.

What also appears to he the case is the Mazda head units are configured differently to the Alpine head units with similar model numbers. Assumption should not he made that the firmware for one is compatible with the other.

I don’t think any of us can comment whether this is the case or not. Mazda may or may not provide similar functionality through their own factory installed applications. Unless one is familiar with the details of the Mazda and Alpine head units, any comments would be speculation and may or may not be correct.

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The specs for the vehicle kit at the time sold reveals all, it would not be speculation. The features were or were not part of the spec.

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We don’t know the features sold, but what we know is the Mazda model headsets firmware has been modified to enable Mazda to install its own mapping, audio etc applications (this is outlined on the Alpine website). Such isn’t available on Alpine models.

As a result, Mazda head units have different features/applications to the similar model Alpine head sets. They aren’t the same.

Thinking further, it could be Mazda ‘bloatware’, which is accepted when one agrees to purchase a Mazda vehicle with an Alpine head unit. Other companies such as Samsung have similar type of features which are installed on or over the underlying firmware (Android). With these other products, one can’t install updates direct from Google as they could cause compatibility issues or bricking of the device. One has to wait until updates are tested, created an pushed out by Samsung. This could be some time after those released by Google, if at all.

With Mazda, if the firmware works fine for their applications, there isn’t a need to update it. Why fix something that isn’t broken. There isn’t any evidence the Mazda head units are defective or don’t function as advertised. If they were defective or didn’t work as advertised, Mazda would be extremely foolish not to find a fix as they could fall foul of the ACL if they didn’t. This is a different situation to that presented.

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Also fixes/adds the following issues/support

“-Wired and wireless CarPlay connectivity issues
-Echo when making phone calls with external amplifiers connected to the preamp
-Flickering camera screen when selecting camera from the AUX screen
-Apple CarPlay disappears from Function Select popup on the device list when the CarPlay connection is changed to another iPhone
-RUX-HO2 connectivity with wireless CarPlay
-Adds Tidal support”

There was a further firmware hotfix 5.0000001 in September 2023 to address continuing echo issues in the phone calls. I think I have the right number of 0s for the hotfix. Even for standard header units (not Mazda designated) Alpine seem very reluctant to quickly address issues or to respond to feedback going by the online discussions in reddit and similar.

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