Larger Companies: Customer Support and Single Payment Methods

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Couple of things bugging me at the moment with big business. And I can’t find actual legal obligations/requirement’s.

  1. Is it a legal requirement for a large company to have easily accessible access to customer support? Uber is my reference for this one. It’s nearly impossible to get access to a person for help with an issue. Their system runs you around in circle or dead ends. The only way I’ve been able to get a person, is to report something under the alarming categories and write my question there. They have even now stopped emailing you directly back, but message you through the app. However, the app has 2 seperate “message” folders in completely different parts of the app. So today I read the message, then went out of it to take the required screenshot, but couldn’t find it in the semi obvious “messages” folder.

This just isn’t acceptable, I can only imagine how anyone that struggles slightly with tech, would just give up. Surely there’s a legal requirement for a company that large without brick and mortar branches that you can walk into, coupled with the nature of the business to have a clearly accessible contact page to customer support. I mean even their “technical guide” are so vague and don’t offer any assistance outside of one path.

  1. Surely a large business to only offer services locked into 1 payment method. Telstra is who I’m referencing here. They’re mobile plans, all state Direct Debit, (they have a market researched alternative name for it, AutoPay). so I contacted them to clarify as the wording sounded like that’s the only way they’ll accept payment. The countries biggest telco network, refusing service to anyone not agreeing to automatic payments, that’s discriminatory. Legal tender is legal tender. I was categorically told that if I wanted to change my plan to the new one, I could only do that if I agreed to AutoPay/Direct Debit. Ive had my Telstra mobile account for over 20 years, never had a problem paying myself. I get it if they’ve got repeat offenders not making payment, to impose stricter conditions to service, but to just blank ban manual payments and hold service hostage to agreeing to give access to your bank account is not right.

I had iiNet sign me up without asking to direct debit when I switched plans, and it wasn’t until I pointed out that my account that I pay myself has been 6 months in credit for the last 2 - 3 years, that they reluctantly cancelled my direct debit.

So both of this things I haven’t be able to find where as a consumer do we stand. I’ve written to a couple of Government agencies, but being Government and all it’s going to take awhile before I hear back from them. Because this is starting to get out of hand.

Cheers

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No. Bad customer support means a bad customer experience and customers which won’t use the business in the longer term.

It doesn’t make good business sense to have bad support. But many do as they see support as a short term cost to the business rather than opportunity to make customers have a good experience and thus potentially maintaining /increasing long term profits.

A business can offer one to many different payment options. Many online businesses only offer one payment method, that being a credit/debit card. Some businesses also only offer EFTs or accept cash (e.g. market stalls). There is no requirement to offer more than one payment method. Many however offer a range of different options as not all customers may have the business’ preferred payment method.

Offering only one may marginalise those customers which can’t use such a payment method. Again, not good business practice.

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Aside from a couple of legislated exceptions, as customers it’s our choice whether we use a business or not. The harsh reality is many businesses appear to be happy to service only those who will make them the most money for the least effort. Not so good business, but profitable.

Shopping around might find a suitable alternative.
EG There are mobile resellers on the Telstra mobile network (coverage options vary). There is also pre-paid to retain some semblance of control.
Although I find the arrangement for our broadband and mobile phones paid monthly by auto debit from my CC account works for us. It’s a regular fixed amount of moderate value. For a larger or irregular payment I’d be less confident.

For Uber etc, if enough consumers raise similar issues to the ACCC which collects consumer feedback. It may or may not see purpose in following up with a named company or more generally suggest consumer law would be better if …… to government. What might follow in the fullness of time? Miracles are uncommon, recognition even less so. :wink:.

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Businesses are run by people, for the benefit of people - sometimes but not necessarily including for the benefit of their customers. Legislation has to strike a balance between the needs of those running the businesses, the intended beneficiaries, the businesses’ customers, and the general public. Currently, social concensus is that legislation should prohibit lying and cheating, but not benign neglect. To put it bluntly, if a company (being a legal person, and therefore (possibly weirdly) endowed with human rights) wishes to abuse, insult, or otherwise inconvenience its prospective customers, that is its human right.

Sorry, but sad fact. :slightly_frowning_face:

On the up side, it is also the human right of disgruntled customers to complain, attempt to shame, and otherwise try to make any offending company’s life a misery. :grin:

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Re requiring up front automatic debit payments- I had the same experience with Telstra today. Though I have had a Telstra account for more than 30 years without automatic debits, my new service requires me to only pay by this method. Apart from denying customers options like attending in person to pay or paying by cash, it is appalling privacy and antifraud practice. Our credit details will be kept on their database as will my drivers licence details (just provided again). Was nothing learnt from the Optus breach??

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@robmimi yeah I was most shocked with Telstra’s ‘AutoPay’ or don’t play.

Consumer protection dmirs just hand balled as expected. The did say to talk to Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman https://www.tio.com.au/

I’m still waiting to hear back from ACCC.

To not accept legal tender by way of bpay is appalling. And as the countries biggest telco there surely should be a moral obligation to provide access.

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@LamaanWhyte I get the need for balance. But also this isn’t mum and dad stores we’re talking about.

There is no legitimate reason why a company the size of Uber doesn’t have easy access to customer support.

Same with Telstra as the nations biggest telco to restrict access from anyone not willing to grant access to their bank account is a joke.

There’s a moral obligation that comes with being so large and the benefits that come with it.

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Businesses, both large and small, have this much in common, that they prosper only to the extent that they provide services of genuine value to their customers. The greater the value, the greater their likely long-term prosperity. ‘Value’, however, is an open-ended feast. It includes immediate practical utilities, plus a host of different possible social-psychological benefits both short- and long-term. In an ideal world, every business, large or small, would cover each and every one of these benefits. In practice, however, this is impossible. Small businesses typically have relatively few customers, so that between them they gain benefit from only a relatively small number of the universe of possible values that a business might offer; for big businesses, the situation is reversed, with what can seem like an infinity of cusomers desiring an infinity of possible values. Yet neither large nor small can cover everything. Not even Uber can provide every possible satisfaction to every one of its customers. Quite simply, even companies the size of Uber have their limitations.

So the question is, under what circumstances might a company such as Uber reasonably - ‘legitimately’, as cosmicpracticaljoke suggests - decide to withhold a value such as ‘easy access to customer support’? Personally, as an occasional Uber customer, my personal vote would be ‘never’. As a marketing manager and consultant, as I was for many decades, however, I could think of quite a few. Maybe Uber management has done its homework and discovered that its core customers - the ones that use their services most regularly - rarely need help, and don’t really appreciate it when they get it. Maybe. If true, however, that would be as clear a legitimate reason as any. In such a case, it would be financially and socially irresponsible for the company to cut back on something that is important to their main customers in favour of something only important to their fringe.

The obverse, of course, is also possible; maybe Uber management is asleep at the wheel, oblivious to the needs of its customers. Alternatively, maybe it is intentionally being blind to its customers’ needs in order to give the other, smaller, guys a fighting chance. My concern here is not to judge anyone until such time as I have all the facts - most especially of what Uber’s core customers want, and what Uber intends for its business.

Thus we have the general rule of business, which is that every business in search of success has a need to look after its core customers. That, however, is a need, not a moral obligation; suicide is legal for businesses as well as people. In the meantime, we should be wary of judging businesses until we know for certain the desires of its core customers (rather than its occasional and spasmodic customers), and its own plans for its own future.

Take, for instance, judgments concerning Telstra:

Here I have to ask you: do you have access to Telstra’s customer research, such as shows the desires of their core customers? If you have, I’d love to see it. I have been studying Telstra’s retail market strategies for the past 25 years or so, and leading me to believe that they consider their core customers to be a relatively small group of people (say, 25-30% of the total population) for whom use of credit card access would be so normal as the alternative would be unthinkable. If I am right in this, then what Telstra is doing is to offer every possible value to these people, and skimping on everything else to the maximum. In effect, what Telstra is saying is: we look after our core group like royalty; then we throw a few cheap bones to everyone else. And if you don’t like our few cheap bones, well, tough luck, and go somewhere else.

And if that is a joke, would say Telstra, then ha ha; I’ll laugh all the way to the bank.

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This topic might roll into the 80-20 standard formula where in the case of business 20% of the customers are responsible for 80% of the profits. They identify what that 20% needs and if they lose a few of the 80% it does not affect their bottom line. That segment might be the most ‘needy’ and most expensive to ‘support’ so as with any balance sheet it gets short shrift as being ‘non-profitable’ (or an unjustified cost).

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Disagree. Denying customer support is never legitimate. It’s cost of doing business. Simple.

And the Telstra thing isn’t about a credit card or not mate. It’s forcing an intrusive form of payment as the only payment option. And the thing you’re not even aware off, that skews the ‘data’, which is surprising considering your previous job history, is how many people are on the AutoPay, because that’s just what they got put on in the first place. It’s not opt in. Again. Not on.

Wtf is with this forum anyway. Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s right. Isn’t that half the point of this forum. To call out the gaps between the legislation we have and the legislation we should have. Almost all of use just accept that if it’s legal fair bump play on. That’s the exact attitude the ones rorting the system welcome.

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Changing legislation to ensure businesses provide a range of payment options will have unintended consequences. Like I raised above, there are many businesses which only accept one form of payment. This is done because as it may be the only form of payment available to the business.

An example would be a market stall holder that only accepts cash. It is possible the market stall holder can’t accept other forms of payment due to a number of factors, such as location, a one off stall (such as from a car boot) or due to credit score restrictions. Forcing every business to have multiple forms of payment could cause some businesses to close/cease operating as it is too hard to meet this requirement. This reduces consumer opportunities and competition.

Another example is the car rental, online or hospitality industry. Many businesses in these industries only accept card payments (car rental is often more restrictive and require credit cards with sufficient credit to cover excesses). If it was legislated that businesses must provide more than one payment method, it would be problematic as cards in some cases, also provide security which other forms of payment can’t offer.

One always has the right not to purchase from a business which they don’t like for some reason. This could be due to unfavourable payment option, bad experiences, not a suitable offering etc. If I found that a business had an unfavourable option, or an option I can’t use, I would go elsewhere. There is no obligation on a consumer to buy from or acquire services from a particular business.

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If that becomes the crux of a reason for not legislating or making codes that multiple payment systems be available where possible and reasonable for a business, I feel we as a country and society have more problems with governing ourselves than can be discussed here. Whether possible and reasonable could become a meaningless tick box would be an issue, but nothing on the table for discussion means we’re ‘all right’?

We can chose to do business elsewhere, but.

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It’s not so long ago that most businesses accepted payment by a number of different means. For big corporates such as Telstra and their competitors the options have included in store, online via various methods including BPay and pre-authorised direct debit.

I do use the last payment option for some services, providing it’s from a credit card payment. These seem easier to challenge and correct than payments made directly from one’s bank account. For the majority of the services we use the suppliers are more than accommodating with nearly all offering BPay and several other options. Some choose a dedicated payment portal. In every instance as the customer we get to choose the timing of the payment and how we move our funds to meet the needs.

Can I take my business elsewhere? If I require a copper line to back up my regional NBN satellite or fixed wireless there is really only one practical option -Telstra. If I don’t agree with Unity Water reducing my payment options to one that does not suit, I cannot take that business (reticulated water and sewerage services) elsewhere.

There are multiple natural monopolies consumers purchase services from on a regular basis. Legislation can direct which businesses and services multiple payment options need to be provided for. Queensland has done so for residential tenancies. It’s not a new thing or too difficult to do.

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I don’t think so. It is not that long ago that almost all businesses only accepted one form of payment, that being cash. Credit cards were rare or nonexistent, different forms of funds transfer (EFT, EFTPOS, BPay etc) weren’t invented and the only choice was cash. Some larger businesses offered cheque payment but this required special approval. Consumers either went to the bank to withdraw cash or used wages paid in cash for nearly every business transaction. This occurred until the mid-1990s when EFTPOS as broadly adopted.

I recall vividly as a child being dragged left, right and centre by a parent to pay bills by cash in the local business’ office. It wasn’t fun when there was a lengthy queue due to the lunchtime rush.

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Businesses have moved over the years from customer initiated bill payments, to business initiated payments. Direct debit or direct charge much preferred these days as they mostly avoid the issue of late payments and followup with reminder notices. And the inevitable complaints when late payment charges are levied.

Pretty much everyone will have a bank account. Even those who are offline and no interaction with the Web. How do you pay an account if you are offline? Post office? Mail a cheque? Mail a returned slip with your credit card details for anyone to see?

All sounds stupid to me when you can just let the business take care of the payment. All you have to do is make sure there is enough money in a nominated account, or sufficient credit limit in a credit account, and that is exactly the same thing one would have to do if paying manually.

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Unless one is unlucky enough to experience ‘a problem’. Just one of many posted in various Community topics.

While time has moved on it remains to be known if all of the related problems have, also. ‘Trust me’ is not something everyone is comfortable with.

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If we all agreed on what is “right” it might be easier but, as you have found, on any given topic that isn’t necessarily so.

There are fairly frequent complaints from posters any time a respondent fails to agree totally with their own view of the world about how things are, or ought to be. The forum aims to supply accurate information and support for consumers but sometimes the first prohibits the second, at least to the satisfaction of the recipient.

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Of course that is an issue. But that is up to the business to take responsibilty for and sort out.
If one is taking the responsibility for paying recurring bills manually, then you are the one at fault if paid late, or not at all if forgotten.

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I would personally never be dismissive about anyone uncomfortable with opening their accounts to potential problems if ‘convenience goes wrong’ by an overcharge.

That experience would be different for someone carrying a balance of say ‘$1,000 ready cash plus a reserve’ where it would be inconvenience, as compared to another who lives pay to pay with no reserve and is only able to ‘just cover’ the real amounts. If one goes bad the others cascade so it is not always just one needing sorting.

That being written I have had most bills paid by direct debit for many years without a problem but know a few people who have not been so fortunate.

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I would never open up my accounts to direct debits. Well, one, my private health insurance monthly payment.

It is all credit card for business initiated debits. One does not need actual money, just enough credit limit to satisfy calls on that credit facility. As I have the discipline to pay off one bill a month, that of the credit card, in full, no problems. No interest.

And if a business screws up with a bad charge, the debit is just one phone call away from a disputed charge and reversal.