My elderly friend has paid a deposit to Flight Centre for travel including flights, accommodation and a cruise in Europe in July of this year. He does not wish to go because his health issues make him vulnerable to Corona virus. He says he rang the travel agent and was advised that the would not only lose his deposit but would have to pay Emirate’s $800 cancellation fee on top of that if he cancels. Flight Centre’s terms and conditions do specify the deposit is non-refundable and seems to say that Flight Centre can recoup direct charges but I am not clear that they can do both. It seems Emirates has suspended flights until it is feasible to start them again so July flights are still an unknown. I would appreciate any advise on this.
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Hi @lasbris, welcome to the forums and you are not the only one being impacted by the travel provider cancellation policies due to COVID-19. I have moved your post here as there is an existing thread about pre-booked travel issues.
In relation to Emirates, Emirates unlike some other airlines has not wavered cancellation fees for flights which can be be made either by the passenger or through cancelled flights as a result of Emirates not flying. They have a webpage which outlines their policy in relation to COVID-19:
https://www.flightcentre.com.au/travel-alert/coronavirus
The Flightcentre website also provides information about fees associated with customer initiated travel cancellation:
https://www.flightcentre.com.au/travel-alert/coronavirus
It appears that Flightcentre passes on any cancellation fees incurred by their suppliers (including Emirates) to the customer.
In relation to your situation, have you asked Flightcentre is they have booked the Emirate flight seats/have a confirmed reservation from Emirates? If they don’t have a confirmed reservation, then it may be possible to argue that the standard cancellation fees from Emirates should not apply as there is not a confirmed booking being cancelled.
Also, have you spoken to them about whether you can obtain a travel voucher from Emirates (see above webpage)…this would possibly allow you to postpone your planned travel until such time that COVID-19 risks are low or deemed acceptable for the destinations you plan to visit?
Choice also has prepared information on how to cancel which may also be useful…
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Thank you for this information which confirms what I had previously found on the Flight Centre website and the article from Choice that did arrive in my inbox today and prompted me to try to get a “deposit specific” answer. What I am not clear about is whether there is any liability beyond a deposit. If a person simply did not pay the remainder of the travel costs on the invoice when those costs became due, would they be liable for further charges anyway? I guess what it boils down to is “does the traveler enter into a binding contract to pay all costs related to the specified travel plans?”
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It comes down to the T&C of the service provided by Flightcentre. These T&Cs for standard bookings can be found here:
https://www.flightcentre.com.au/booking-terms-condition
These T&Cs state, “Cancellations to International bookings (excluding Trans-Tasman bookings) will incur a fee of $300 per passenger per booking in addition to supplier fees.”
I expect that the deposit is more than the $300 cancellation fee, but how does it compare with the $800 Emirates supplier cancellation fee?
What may be possible is to negotiate with Flightcentre that the deposit is used for the Flightcentre $300 fee and the Emirates $800 fee, with the difference an additional payment by you. This would reduce the potential outstanding liability.
I would negotiate with a manager within Flightcentre rather than a call centre person. Maybe also try and visit a Flightcentre outlet (if they are still open) to see what they can do.
Hopefully Flightcentre is flexible in its approach as COVID-19 is an event outside Flightcentre’s, Emirates and your control.
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From those T&C’s
Cancellations to International bookings (excluding Trans-Tasman bookings) will incur a fee of $300 per passenger per booking in addition to supplier fees.
Then continue reading what you wrote…
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Thanks for that. I guess the issue is that the terms and conditions specify that the deposit is non-refundable but does not appear to specify that it will be used to cover any supplier fees. With Flight Centre being swamped at the moment, the location used by my friend being closed, and the remaining charges coming due soon we were hoping that there would be a definite answer to what, exactly, is a deposit. It seems that his best option is to cancel, not pay anything more (he is resigned to losing the deposit) and let Flight Centre prove any further liability.
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Must be one of those days…thanks for picking this one up for me. have amended the above post to correct.
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For what it’s worth I have had little trouble with the cancellation of our precooked and mainly paid for holiday that was for June/July.
This included return airfares for two ex Mel to Paris via Singapore stopover on return + 1 pax Mel-Sin return. Given I was splurging to celebrate major milestone birthdays and had Business class seatS, it is a sizeable amount of money invested in this trip.
I am annoyed with Emirates and their cancellation fees. I don’t begrudge Flight Centre their service fee because I made my consultant work hard for his money. However, I am in a position where I can afford to keep the money as travel vouchers with Flight Centre. I refuse to lose nearly $2000 in fees.
The hotel that was booked for the first night has happily agreed to rebook at a later date and not charge a cancellation fee. The hotel on Mont St Michel was also very easy to cancel with online with no fees. The hotel in Singapore, The Concorde, that we have used several times (great place and excellent service), did not charge a cancellation fee and we hadn’t paid as yet either.
The only one I am taking issue with is AirBnb which is still trying to charge a service fee for a stay booked for July. I am sitting tight on that one and monitoring the situation with that booking. The host is happy to refund so I’m just trying to avoid the fee.
None of this is a brag but showing that many places are being quite helpful. I have made the effort of personally emailing/messaging all accommodation bookings to express my regret at cancelling and my hope to rebook at a later date when travel is permitted again. A personal touch seems to help at this time. However the airlines I let my consultant deal with.
What is really funny is that when I started booking from 20 January I asked my travel consultant what would happen if there was a pandemic given the news coming out of China. The same when I booked the Airbnb. Wish we had placed bets about this as we would have made some money. At least I went in informed and settled in my decision.
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Last September I made an award booking with QF for a 2 May flight to bring a family member from the USA for a holiday.
When COVID-19 hit the fan QF did a good job communicating options, and refunded the points and ‘taxes and fees’ in full.
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We booked and paid in full for the May APT tour of Sicily. APT have cancelled the tour.
Prior to cancellation we were told it would be a 50% penalty for us to cancel, now that APT have cancelled we only are to receive 20%.
APT have offered a credit which given our age is not suitable. This was to be our last hurrah. APT are justifying their poor performance on the “force majure” clause in their original T&C, however last week issued an amended T&C ( Europe 2020) that noted force majure, but NOT WHAT IT COVERED. Am presuming this new set of T&C post dates the original terms ?
Under English law, Force majure must state all possible outcomes, and I note that pestilence is not noted in any of APT Terms and conditions.
Very poor APT.
2020-04-02T13:00:00Z
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Welcome to the .community @PD1812
I read that as a 50% penalty is reduced to a 20% penalty, is that correct? If so that seems a bit ‘rich’ of them to keep any dollars.
I assume you booked through APT Australia? Since we do not have English Law in Australia our own laws both explicit, common, and contract apply. I could not find a hit for ‘Europe 2020’ on their web site related to T&C. If it is different please post a link. The APT Australia web site shows the relevant T&C as:
Force Majeure - Force Majeure means the occurrence of an event that is beyond APT’s reasonable control and which could not have been reasonably prevented by APT, which includes, but is not limited to: … . with the all encompassing words includes, but is not limited to.
The ACCC has advice that seems in your case would refer you to the contract.
Some companies are more customer and reputation friendly than others, but unfortunately many, especially when faced with potentially large costs, will be inflexible because any variation for one will set a precedent whereby they are obligated to give the same concession to all who apply.
It is not clear if you approached them asking for a refund or as a gesture allowing you to transfer your credit to someone else. If you have not you should and might be pushed back, or a compromise might be reached that is more amenable than the default.
If you achieve a better outcome than the default please let us know as others may be in a similar predicament. If you need assistance doing that and are a member of Choice, Choice Help is available although is often busy and may take some days to engage with you, especially with current disruptions.
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Yes we approached them and were told either a credit or 20% of total value of the booking. We cannot accept a credit and they are not interested in negotiating. Very unfortunate given we are / were high level members of APT travel club.
The amended T and C were sent to me in an email by the senior APT consultant, and are not published on the web site. That is a major inconsistency with policy on their part.
I understand their cash flow issues but am also sure most travellers will and can take the credit offer, we can not. I am continuing to pursue at least a 50% refund.
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Tiger Air announced on 21 March 2020 that they were indefinitely suspending all flights between Perth and Melbourne from 1 April 2020 and that they will attempt to place passengers on alternative Virgin flights.
I was due to fly on 8 April returning on 16 April.
Tiger Air have now unilaterally issued me a “credit voucher” that expires on 2 October 2020.
I don’t want a credit voucher, I want a refund.
I don’t think Tiger Air is going to survive the Coronavirus and in any event, a credit voucher that expires on 2 October 2020 is next to useless for me.
If an airline completely cancels a route and is no longer able to provide the service you purchased, I believe they should be providing a refund and not a credit voucher.
Does anyone know the actual legal position?
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Welcome to the .community @Brynnerz,
Sadly you are finding yourself in the same dilemma as many others.
Please scan this topic from the top, especially looking for one from Choice and second a link I provided to ACCC advice that might be relevant.
Tiger has a force majeure clause in their T&C although not called that, in this section:
https://tigerair.com.au/support/conditions-of-carriage#Article12
Note they make reference to Australian consumer law so your best chance may be to have a read of the previously linked ACCC advice as well as your consumer rights under the ACL. Send a receipted formal letter of complaint to a complaints line or management, not customer service (there are Choice as well as ACCC templates available) citing how you claim they have breached the ACL, your evidence of same, and stating what you want with a date for their response.
Tiger being a low-end low cost carrier could be more intransigent than other airlines. Good luck and please let us know how you go.
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See our advice here. It’s unlikely you’ll get a refund from Tiger but credits will be transferable to Virgin. Hopefully they stay afloat. https://www.choice.com.au/travel/on-holidays/airlines/articles/flight-refunds
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Listening to AM on ABC radio this morning, it appears that the Grattan Institute and others think that there could international travel restrictions for around 2 years, especially if COVID-19 infestations run over more than one season/-year. If the governments get the COVID-19 in Australia under control and to prevent the virus being imported through international travel causing new outbreaks, international travel restrictions seem inevitable.
If this occurs, I wonder how it will affect the ‘vouchers’ or deferred bookings currently being offered by many travel organisations, tour group agencies and carriers/accommodation providers when many of these have time frames for use.
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Optimistically?
Are we all expecting they are still around?
There are other risks. For older Australian consumers, the prospects that they may not be able to take up any deferred travel at a future date is also a real concern, expressed in comments.
Consider - Natural attrition (age related death rate), loss of partners, changes in personal health, reason for travel no longer valid (eg Visiting Family who were working OS returned home), plus …
Until a future time when ‘The Virus’ is a very low risk, is it even likely older travellers will be able to obtain travel insurance, for any OS travel?
A more positive outlook might be for those of us who in the near future survive contracting ‘The Virus’. With proof of immunity, will we be free to travel as we please? Bargain travel, tourist free destinations, and service providers keen for customers.
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We booked and paid in full for the cruise departing May. Now the cruise is suspended. APT are offering 100% credit for use on future travel by EOY2021. Our preference is a refund as we are uncertain if we can use the credit but we are told this is not an option. As we paid with a credit card can we reasonably apply for chargeback for services not delivered and if we do are we legally compromised in any way with Flight Centre or APT
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Welcome to the .community @Afterdark,
Unfortunately you are one of many. Scroll up a few posts to see another unhappy APT customer with some special circumstances yet apparently not getting an ear beyond ‘here it is, take it or leave it’.
Forum members are unable to give legal advice. Some things you should consider are that you have a contract with APT, so beyond their COVID-19 policy the ACCC has advice that usually ‘sends’ the consumer to the contract and its terms and conditions.
Charge backs have strict time limits at the best of times, usually 60 or 90 days, issuer dependent, so that is one thing to consider. Chargebacks are processed in a way whereby the supplier has an opportunity to rebut claims, and them providing your contract to the card issuer may be sufficient for the charge to be reinstated.
Another link is from Choice that focuses on travel agents not tour companies per se, but it might also be helpful.
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It may be worth writing to them to remind them of their force majeure clause, which the current pandemic may sit (many other travel providers are claiming force majeure for the current situation we find ourselves in) …
Limitation of Liability in the Event of Force Majeure - In the event of a force majeure event making it impossible or unsafe for APT to deliver all or part of the Holiday Package, APT will refund the customer for the unperformed part of the Holiday Package less any reasonable losses incurred before cancellation. Losses may amount to a substantial proportion of the booking price. APT will use reasonable endeavours to minimise losses incurred by customers. Customers must take out travel insurance to protect themselves against loss in the circumstances.
I would be requesting a refund based on this…they may argue differently, but it would be interesting to see what response they give.
Thinking aloud with the shoe on the other foot, if every pre-booked customer requested a full refund, many of the businesses holding money for the bookings are likely to become insolvent. If this occurs, then all customers may be worse off as they become creditors to the failed business. Providing vouchers or transferring booking to post-COVID-19 may be the best outcome for all customers as a whole as the businesses will have some cash to continue operations until things return to normal.
Nonetheless, personally if I were in your situation, I would be pushing hard for a refund.
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