Hi all, I am hoping that someone in the Choice Community might be able to help with advice.
On my birthday 3 years ago we purchased a 7 year old BMW X1 from BMW at Rushcutters Bay in Sydney. The car had 58,000 kilometers and we have driven around 12,000 km in the 3 years that we have had the car. My wife has driven the car most of the time locally. I am 75 and on an aged pension as is my wife. We bought the car for $19000 drive away which seem to be a great bargain. With the low mileage I felt that as it is a diesel car it would see me out. However, on Saturday 20 May whilst driving on Anzac Parade Kingsford the car made a thud and stopped working. We were fortunate that the car behind did not collide with us and we were able to glide off the road. We had it towed last week to BMW at Rushcutters Bay. Today they rang to say that it would cost $21,000 to fix. We will receive a report detailing the problem at some time but at this time it has not arrived. My questions are:
Is it reasonable for a BMW X1 with around 70,000 km to have a catastrophic failure. My normal garage has told me that as it stands we would get around $1000 for the car as a wreck. So our loss for 3 years of travel would be $18,000 just for the car, if we sell it as a wreck. We cannot afford to pay $21,000 to fix it which is $2000 more than we paid to buy it.
Kind regards Harry
That repair amount sounds excessive. Do you know what caused the thud? If it was the motor or gearbox, surely a 2nd hand/refurbished replacement would cost less than $21000?
Thanks Gordon, my usual garage has said the he might be able to get a second hand engine for around $6,500 with around 100,000 if he can trust the supplier with the mileage. Given that the car has 70,000 it is a pity that a second hand engine would have hopefully only 100,000. The cost to fit etc might end up totally at somewhere between $10,000 and $12,000. That is if it the problem is only the engine which I donât know until BMW get back to us with the report.
That happened to me once. The thud and the engine just giving way was a timing belt failed. There were some bent valves but no engine replacement needed, just some head work. sure it cost a couple of thousand to fix, and it was right on 70,000 Kms. Not a BMW, but a Japanese car.
I would get an appraisal of what the actual problem could be. $21000 is an utterly ridiculous ambit claim that should be ignored.
While the X1 has a timing chain which should in theory is stronger/more robust and longer life, some BMW engines are known to have timing chain failures:
which lead to legal action in the US. I understand that they might be petrol rather than diesel engines.
Timing chain failure could be a possible reason for the engines failure. Where it occurs, it can lead to irreparable and catastrophic engine failure.
I would be taking the vehicle to another mechanic which specialises in BMWs, preferably an independent rather than a dealership, for a second opinion.
If it is confirmed as chain failure and is known fault, it might give you grounds to pursue a claim against BMW Australia.
One of the problems BMW X series vehicles seem to have is problems with the Launch Control " where fitted . X1 's sold in the USA have the control deactivated due to transmission failures .
Australian X1âs are fitted with this control . I believe the control can only be used about 100 times during normal transmission life . Seems strange .
If your car was 7 years old when you purchased it maybe the previous owner thrashed it in launch control mode .
To explain how launch control works . It was basically developed by the BMW F1 racing team . I have driven an X5 V8 fitted with it . You in engage launch control mode then put your left foot on the brake . Push the accelerator all the way to the floor and wait till a flag shows on the instrument cluster then release the brake .
Mammoth acceleration but a terrific strain on engine and transmission .
My advice would be to have the vehicle repaired if price permits and sell it .
X1 's are currently over $65,000 new . You may get a good price even though it is 10 years old .
Too late now but never , ever buy that type of vehicle when it is over 2 years old . Expensive to service and when they go wrong the repair prices are ludicrous .
At $21,000 it sounds like transmission issues .A BMW diesel motor would be twice that .
I used to work for Toyota . Get one of them or get the most recommended car brand as surveyed by their owners for the last 3 years .A Suzuki . I drive a Suzuki Turbo and along with the other 6 of them I have owned no problems .
I hope it all works out for you . At $19000 that car was cheap even 3 years ago when you purchased it . Make sure the dealer gives you a complete rundown of all pricing and labour . If not happy contact BMW Australia . If you have issues with them let them know you are posting on social media about the vehicle . I believe they have just released a new model BMW X1 . Your story is the type of publicity they donât want .
If you ever had, same issue as i did with my cars gearbox failed. The manufacturer certainly never helped out ill never trust anyone again even the so called consumer law is false. Hope it gets sorted.
Perhaps not a brand thatâs well liked in Rushcutters, but they are reliable. Iâve had mine for 21 years and it owes me nothing. regular normal servicing and a few years ago I needed a couple of sensors replaced (because stopping dead in traffic when driving even at low speed is unnerving and dangerous)âŠ
Its been a damn good car.
Thank you for your comments. The latest is that they will need to replace both timing chains. The problem is that perhaps the engine was damaged also but I guess they will not know until they replace the chains. I have read reviews from Ireland the UK and America stating that this is a common fault with BMWs.
The timing chain can stretch over time, and can break. Not supposed to, but as you now know this is a known problem with your model car.
The only damage I know of when a chain or belt fails could be some valve(s) that should be closed being being hit by a piston(s) on the way up, which could damage them and possibly the valve seat. Maybe the camshaft. But that is some parts in the engine head that would need inspecting and maybe replacing. That will be known once a new chain in fitted and the engine fired up.
New engine? Hardly think so.
Thanks Gregr. They now claim to have an agreement from BMW AU to pay for parts but only things like bolts gaskets etc it seems as they are charged nearly $7000 for the chains etc. However they now still want $13100.
Is the engine a 2.0l diesel, or petrol, and if so what capacity etc.
Despite settlement under US law, BMW refused to accept there was a design fault with the engines. For background on failures of the N47 based diesel engines.
If you have not already done so it may assist you to get some assistance from a third party mechanic who has good BMW or engine knowledge. Iâve often found that the staff at the independent specialist repairers are willing to offer advice or comment if you share your problem. Sufficient in your instance to say whether the type of failure your particular model has experienced is likely to require the work being quoted. I suspect some might offer to do the same for less, including an engine replacement if required. Your BMW dealer might complain, but should allow you and an independent mechanic to inspect your vehicle and discuss the work so that you can obtain an alternate quote. For a 10 year old car loyalty to BMW given the costs being quoted appears to offer little benefit.
Technical:
The following is not an exhaustive list or expert comment. Itâs difficult for anyone to offer detailed advice or comment without direct access to the vehicle and some expert knowledge of the engine fitted.
Note that timing chain failures can result in catastrophic damage to an engine. The extent of damage is not fully accessible/evident without a partial strip down. However there are some basic assessments the mechanics should have carried out to determine whether the engine is likely to have serious upper end damage. While they cannot say absolutely an engine is OK there are convenient options for an internal inspection using a fibre optic camera, (borescope). This may sound a little technical, itâs expedient and will identify if valve clash, or other significant mechanical damage is evident. One would hope the BMW dealership has been responsible. If any internal damage is evident there is little point in replacing the timing chains and other components to see if the engine still works.
Depending on the individual engine model, type and design, some are able to survive a timing chain or belt failure. Other brands/engine models nearly always suffer mechanical damage only repairable by a partial or full engine rebuild. Hence comments it is often less expensive to fit a second hand engine. Timing chains as a spare part are typically a few hundred dollars each (dealership spares prices). Note the BMW timing chain failures list the replacement of several other engine components as standard including the chain tensioner and an oil pump. Some engines list an upgraded timing chain guide. There may be other components required.
I wonder if you are a member of the RACA in your State, having an inspection and a quote from them might sort out the informations youâve been given and help you in making a decision on the best way for you to go.
It sounds like a terrible situation to be in, wish you all the best 
5 decades ago memory is all the auto clubs employed mechanics and operated inspection centres as well as their own panel beaters (at least in metro areas). In these days âoutsourcingâ is their norm, eg they have lists of âaccredited auto centresâ and ânon-accredited regional centresâ. An âRACV providerâ essentially seems to pay RACV for licensing the brand in a territory, end of story so long as they do not generate unresolved complaints.
RACVâs local âaccredited repairerâ resembles a dealer shop including dealer prices but without the dealerships ability to get direct factory (importer) support. I got âup-soldâ to questionable and expensive treatments and did not return.
I use an independent mechanic in preference to chains/franchises where each shop can deliver different experiences anyway. RACV seems a master of little except ever broader marketing these days. Their 'product mix has become quite extensive.
Others may have a differing view and we all do not share the same experiences with providers of any sort yet a well regarded independent normally will have the fewest conflicts.
This is all I was thinking of: getting more than two quotes and more than two opinions. Itâs the way I go about things, anyway.
Itâs certainly wisdom in this example to look elsewhere.
There are alternate independent mechanical specialists in the capitals and our larger cities as @PhilT mentions. Finding one in Sydney with BMW experience should not be too difficult. Always pays to get references.
Iâve similar lifetime experiences with RACQ where progressively their member support has morphed from in house inspection and technical support. Now just a âbrand ambassadorâ in many ways, discounts and value uncertain other than the roadside assist if one is well travelled in a car long passed any dealer offered support?
Second that. Major cities at least have workshops independent of the car makers that specialise in upmarket European makes. Or maybe just BMW, or in engine repairs.
They have the specialist knowlege, the tools, the diagnostic equipment.
Thank you all for your kind input and suggestions. Gregr thank you for your detailed feedback.
Where we stand at the moment is that later today following calls to the NRMA and Fair Trading NSW this afternoon,we will offer to cover the $6,165.68 for labour. In our letter we will point out the fact that the timing chain issue is worldwide and that we believe in good faith that our offer to pay for labour is reasonable. We are concerned that replacing the timing chains might not fix the problem if the engine has been damaged. The claim that they have used equipment to analyse the situation, however even though I am not a mechanic, I cannot see how one can tell if the internals of an engine are damaged without physically inspecting the inside of the engine. Once again thank you members of the forum for your advice and suggestions. I will post the reaction from BMW when I receive it. Kind regards
Harry
A favorite TV show of mine is Wheeler Dealers on the nine network.
One episode Mike bought a BMW M3; canât remember if it was a straight 6 version, or V8 version.
Anyway, the first thing the mechanic, Ant, said when it was brought back to the workshop was that he was going to replace the timing chains, guides, tensioners, cogs, seals, gaskets, water pump, and anything else related to what those chains drove, and what drove the chains.
He knew about these BMW engine problems.
And most of the front of the car needed to be removed to get at the engine. Big job.
But if done properly, whilst expensive, should be good for another 80K.
With respect, if that is the case you should sell it as quickly as possible even at a loss unless you have other means of financing repairs as they are usually eye wateringly expensive.
No. But sadly, to be expected. Google your model and âissues/problemsâ and see what that delivers, BMWs are not known for reliability.
Fitting should be no more than 2-3k including fluids.
Definitely.
The impact of launch control on transmissions is extreme.
If only. Valve to piston impact is usually catastrophic as the valve stems get pushed sideways and often destroy the guides to the point that the head isnât salvageable. It also usually destroys at least one piston.
A borescope is used to inspect the cylinders, this often provides a lot of info on the condition of the engine. Draining the engine oil can reveal metal flakes if thereâs internal damage. Just removing the oil cap will often tell you if the timing chain has snapped as it wonât be wrapped around the gear where itâs supposed to be.
Good luck Harry.
