I’ve been told that for my car, I need to use such and such grade of oil.
For my motorcycle however, the dealer says I need to use special “motorbike oil” even though the viscosity grade as specified in the owners handbook is the same standard stuff as that used in many cars.
And for the lawnmower, the dealer says I need to use special “lawnmower oil” for air cooled engine, even though the viscosity grade is the same as that used in many cars.
If I hadnt been told those things I would have bought the one grade of oil to fit all three vehicles.
So I’m wondering if there is any substance to what the dealers have told me, or is this a ploy to convince me to purchase the special oil from them, at their “special” prices?
For mowers and other small 4 stroke engines the preferred oil is a SAE30 single grade oil with no winterisation (e.g. 5W-30 or 15W-30). Some allow the use of winterised oils as long as the non W is 30. Just be aware that if the viscosity is too low, this may lead to premature wear of components, so using winterised oils in a mower or similar may lead to earlier failures than what may be normally expected.
While the viscosity is the same for oils used across different engines, the API service classifications can be different. This website explains the current classifications:
The differences between brands is less significant. True some are better than others, or at least as far as the quality of the marketing. I stay with the major brands but without any supporting evidence they are any better. As others have suggested it’s the specification for the oil in the owners manuals which should be the guide. Newer motor vehicles will typically require a minimum API classification SN or SP. The viscosity grades are what they are. Recommendations to be followed.
The API classification system is backwards compatibility. Refer to prior post by @phb or
IE If the bike has the same or an earlier API classification than ones car the later car classification will meet the previous classification requirement.
To note modern water cooled engines usually specify a multi grade oil. Use of a multi grade oil in an older air cooled engine (some motor bikes, most lawn mowers and yard equipment) various view points. As @grahroll suggested, here I use a single well known oil brand grade SAE 30 weight API SJ small engine oil for various air cooled Honda, Victa, Briggs & Stratton, Kohler independent of what is called up for the car.
The service classification stands out for both. To note SJ supersedes SF, SG, SH. For our SE Qld climate a straight 30 weight oil is adequate, providing in this instance it meets API service classification SJ. One needs to check the product label or manufacturers web site. If it were a footpath snow thrower at Threadbo or Falls Creek one would look to a multi grade.
Thank you.
I understand viscosity rating like 5w 30 but the letters that come after it are confusing.
As you say they are backwards compatible so i really need a way to decode those letters SF SJ blah blah etc so i can determine which is the better for back compatibility.
Thanks
BB
Refer to the API link in my prior post.
My highlight of the content listed under the Gasoline tab - if that is not an obvious selection when following to that document.
There is a table which follows the above from the API Doc. Hopefully self explanatory. It’s important to always refer to the manufacturers recommendations. They occasionally note exceptions.
The labels on motor oil products typically include in the written text a multitude of references to the specifications an oil meets. If in doubt one cold ask for in store assistance. The better stores have application guides for the various brands/products. I tend to go online to the brand website. An example - not a brand recommendation, but one I am familiar with. Castrol, Penrite etc offer similar.
To note the minimum API specification current in 2004 would have been a SJ or SL. Ford also had its own branded “uniquely labelled” specification. Shell no longer market these older specifications as the more recent SN meets a wider range of vehicles up unto 2020. The difference between the HX5 refined mineral oil and HX7 a refined synthetic mineral oil - in the base oil and some additives. I’ve not reproduced the third product for easier reading. It’s a product that meets the latest API SP specification. If your vehicle is European it may also list the Europea ACEA specification A letter and number combination/s using A,B,or C followed by a number, although Australian sold models should come with the API recommendations in the owners manual.
That’s very helpful thank you.
Now I can be better informed when I buy oil.
I note also that SP suffix is designed for protection against LSPI.
I suspect LSPI is another term for detonation which can result from a number of things, one of which is using the wrong octane fuel rating.
Like many people I’d been led to believe that using premium fuels with higher octane rating was supposed to give better performance and fuel economy. I tested this out and wasn’t convinced it made any difference to power or fuel economy but did make a difference to my wallet, premium fuels being more expensive.
My bike has compression ratio of 12.5:1 which is quite high for petrol engines and produces good low rev torque. The manual specifies premium fuels to avoid detonation and consequent engine damage.
But I suspect some people put premium fuels in their vehicles based on the myth that it gives better performance fuel economy etc.
The better known brands also provide recommendations for smaller engines.
2-stroke and 4-stroke from brush cutters and leaf blowers to chainsaws and ride mowers.
Value varies, although ride on mowers tend to be premium priced, hence:
Yes, W = Winter. So when starting an engine in very cold conditions, the oil is less viscous and so doesn’t hinder starting or early lubrication of components.
Single grade SAE 30 for mowers is generally detergent free and is suitable for most Australian usage. It is usually a cheaper product. It is also the general recommendation for the air cooled engines. As @mark_m noted, in very cold places using a winterised oil may be beneficial, I doubt that grass mowing would be of concern at those temperatures. If you wanted to use a winterised oil in a mower 10W-30 is a fairly safe option.
Detergents are used to help remove harmful contaminants from the oil, a mower does not have filters to then remove these contaminants. Usual period for an oil change in a mower is about after every 30 hours of operation (to ensure that contaminants do not become a problem). This time period will not vary whether a single grade SAE 30 oil is used or a winterised oil, it is done because there is no oil filtering and so at 30 hours the build up of contamination is close to being unacceptable. Detergents in the oil in this case do not provide any benefit.
For cars and bikes they do usually have oil filtering. The manual should indicate both grade of oil to be used and frequency of change required.
Some bikes may have two stroke motors and the oil is added to the fuel or is injected with the fuel into the cylinder. This type of oil is specific for 2 stroke operation and usually it is added at ratio of around 50 parts fuel to one part oil for high performance motors such as 2 stroke boat motors, commercial 2 stroke garden tools such as whipper snippets and for 2 stroke motorbikes.
Your bike, if it has a “wet” clutch (most modern bikes do - some exceptions) should not be using oil designed for cars as the additives will screw your clutch. Yes, you bike DOES need bike specific - oil.
The handbook says not to put additives in the oil such as molybdenum as it coats engine parts and blah blah blah.
But the hanbook does not specify “motorcycle oil”.
Yes it has a wet clutch.
BB
Possibly a little uncertain depending on the API specification and product brand/additive package.
There is a Japan based working group that has noted the possibility that the latest updated automotive engine oils may produce wet clutch slipping and or gear pitting. Refer: JASO Standards Implementation Panel
To note that the major oil brands do offer engine oils specifically for motor bikes. How they differ inside the container, and if they differ - other than in the package brand labelling? One would need first hand knowledge of the formula used for each specific product and brand - motor cycle specific and that marketed as gasoline engine oil not specific. Shell, Penrite etc in their on line lubricant selection apps appear to only select products labelled specifically for motor bikes.
I asked a similar thing years ago and a bike mechanic explained it thusly (he wasn’t working on my bike so he had no profit motivation). The key thing to remember with motorcycles is that the oil is shared across the engine and transmission, which is not the case in cars. The additives and operating conditions are different and there is a serious chance that using a general purpose car oil will damage the bike.
This is especially the case for the higher revving bike engines. My take is that it’s a bad idea to try and save $20-$50 on oil while putting the engine and transmission of your bike at risk.
I would simply read the specifications in the bike’s Owner’s Manual. It’ll be clearly spelled out there. If the Manual specifies “Motor Cycle Grade” or “Honda/Kawasaki” Brand - go with that.
Otherwise, a reputable brand is fine.
Lawn Mowers - in 55 years, mine have got whatever oil is in the shed - which probably aligns with my current car. The engines are very low stressed and last forever. I’ve had them last 20 years and never had an engine fail. Last one, the blade plate, 3 wheels, starter, ignition module, broken throttle cable meant it wasn’t worth fixing - but the motor was fine.
Though, my latest car uses very light oil so I got some straight 30W from Repco/mart.
I’ve found the manufactures owners manuals only specify a minimum API or ACEA specification. Unfortunately other then an OEM brand the vehicle Manufacturers do not usually recommend which oil (lubricant) products from the recognised oil/lubricant brands fully meet their minimum specifications. The API classification system is the most widely used in Australia. To note for motor bikes and other small engines the owners manual may further qualify the alternate product specification with a generic statement - IE that the chosen product contain or not contain certain additives/performance modifiers. This can leave the owner in a state of uncertainty to make the final decision. Especially since the API specification does not certify for gasoline engines product suitability for non passenger/light commercial vehicles.
My preference when needing to make such decisions is to use the website product search tool for the brand/s of the oil available to purchase locally at a good price. All the major brands of oils have similar tools. Although one may need to try several for less common vehicles, and smaller engines.
I’ve had no difficulty finding the recommended oil products from several well known brands of oil for the ride on mower (9 years old superseded US model - engine oil and transmission oil). Using the online tools to provide the answer takes the science out of identifying the correct oil to use.
To note most of the major oil brands can return more than one product option for the chosen vehicle/engine etc, differences in price point and marketing promises. If it were cheddar cheese one can taste the difference, although some might suggest the same of engine oil. The latter short of access to an expensive complex laboratory less likely to be reliable.
I dont plan on tasting the engine oil!!
My car handbook tells me that i need to use Subaru 0w20 oil and my bike handbook insists I use BMW Motorrad oil.
To obtain those exact oils I need to go to a Subaru or BMW bike dealer and pay thru the nose for what I strongly suspect is just a rebranded generic oil brand.
For the bike I will take on board the advice of no additives as it has a wet clutch. If I can get " motorcycle oil" at a fair price I’ll use that.
BB
I remember for our Honda Jazz for the CVT gearbox the only oil/fluid that could be used was the Honda one. Even then the judder could become a problem, but the usual fix was to fill, run till hot, then drain and fill again. Any other oil used would immediately lead to juddering, so we had to only buy the oil from Honda and it was not a cheap price.
Final fix was to get the starter plate in the gearbox replaced with a larger one, still had to use the Honda brand of oil though to avoid judder. I don’t know what made it different to all the other similar type oils on the market, but it was different.
Sometimes switching to a similar but not the same product can lead to problems and the possibility that any warranty or guarantee will be voided.
with higher octane rating was supposed to give better performance and fuel economy. I tested this out and wasn’t convinced it made any difference to power or fuel economy but did make a difference to my wallet, premium fuels being more expensive.
