Dogs like cats are really Carnivores and their digestive system is designed for that role including eating meat/offal that would make us very sick. For some reading on the matter see the following with the last one being issued by the University of California Santa Barbara.
There’s some good information there. It’s definitely an area where more research is needed either way to figure out the best option. The only thing I’d keep in mind is that info does come from a manufacturer of supplements for raw fed pets. That doesn’t invalidate it in the slightest but it means they’re probably not going to directly address the issues that might not benefit them.
We’ve had and bred dogs for a few decades now and have tried various raw and kibble food options. In general our (working dog breed) dogs prefer raw meat, bones, etc and in over 200 puppies over the years we’ve only encountered one with a sensitive stomach. They particularly loved our phase of feeding a balanced mix of meat, bones, liver, kidney, brain, lung, etc.
Having said that we learned to avoid chicken frames, necks, etc unless they were really fresh -they tend to quickly change into something that goes right thru the poor dogs.
The University one though does not have that “vested” interest nor would I suggest the Vet (David Nichols, DVM SK’84) do (as they probably and normally want to sell feed products). But the broad similar veined approaches to the feed problem all reflect the same basic info.
Vet’s All Natural is a brand not a veterinary body. They don’t sell food, only supplements for raw feeding. Hence me considering the university study the most reliable source I’ve seen.
Sorry my fault for not being more clear the Vet one was the Quora one, they all broadly say the same things that dogs tolerate some pathogens much better than we do. The Vet answer doesn’t look to other reasons much beyond pH levels but does acknowledge the ability of canines to handle stuff we can’t. I have amended my post to make it clearer of whom I was using.
From the RSPCA
“We recommend you choose human-grade raw meat and raw meaty bones because some pet meat/pet mince/pet rolls/pet meat and bone products can contain preservatives that can be detrimental to the dog’s health”
Very true. Many of your supermarket brands add them. If you’re in WA check out Victory Pet Meats. It’s packed locally in Midvale, has no preservatives and is vacuum sealed to reduce bacteria risks.
But yeah good point to always check the back of the packet for those preservatives. Most supermarket rolls have them because of the amount of time they spend in transit. I know in WA at least all the major pet chains sell rolls and meats that don’t have artificial preservatives added.
And the RSPCA advice for feeding puppies.
Yep raw chicken wings are recommended.
Personally I always take the RSPCA with a grain of salt too. Not for research reasons but because of some people in the organisation themselves. Unfortunately RSPCAWA is particularly aggressive towards any organisation that tries to do anything differently to them, despite the fact the RSPCA puts down more healthy dogs and cats than anyone else here. One animal charity campaign I was involved with actually stopped having them as a beneficiary because there was never a ‘thank you’, only a ‘you’re doing this wrong’. Instead the money was redirected to local shelters with no kill policies.
It just makes me worry about whether they would actually update their recommendations if someone suggested they were doing something wrong.
Also I feel like I should clarify something. I do think it’s likely raw chicken is safe for dogs and cats.
It’s just I feel like when dealing with an animals life it’s a case of better safe than sorry. Especially given raw chicken is hardly the only option for feeding your pet. Once follow up studies are done that are able to prove the safety then I’ll go back to letting my dogs have raw chicken. But for now there are many other things they can eat.
tpeter267 I don’t know about you, but my dog is more than just an animal, he gives us unconditional love and happiness at every possible moment, and if I have any doubts about what I feed him it is always better to err on the side of caution.
My dog’s life is far too valuable to mess around with “maybe’s”
The sooner that Choice and the Public can convince the Government to ENFORCE accurate ingredient standards and pet food labelling - that is “suitable for human consumption” and prepared in a healthy low-risk manner, the better.
The “Advance” dry dog food - that led to the DEATH of over 12 Australian dogs, both pet dogs AND law enforcement dogs was totally UNACCEPTABLE
If the Government had ENFORCED proper handling and ingredient labelling on Pet Food products - these dogs would not be DEAD now!
We need to convince the Australian Government that our pets are important, and it is VITAL to provide the Shopper with accurate information about the Pet food that they are purchasing. We need accuracy and obviously, much higher standards in pet food manufacture and handling to prevent this situation ever happening again. It is not good enough to give shoppers false information - WE NEED HIGHER STANDARDS for Pet food - in order to protect the animals that we have invested so much time, care, love and money on!
The time to act is NOW - why risk your beloved Pet’s life on dodgy claims and facts that are not VERIFIED or controlled/enforced in any way!
What are you waiting for?
Do something about it NOW, and sign the Choice Australia campaign for better ENFORCEMENT of pet food labelling, and higher standards of hygiene.
How would you feel if you knew that the Pet food you fed your family pet was responsible for KILLING them?
Sign the petition now, and stop the death of family pets and working animals Australia wide.
I’m already a supporter of that campaign, however there is a factual inaccuracy in what you’ve said.
The cause of Megaesophagus in Advance Dermocare is still completely unknown. The ingredient labeling was completely accurate as far as investigators know. The issue in this case had absolutely nothing to do with ingredient labeling. The ultimate cause of the eventual recall was a ‘significant statistical link’ To this date I still don’t think they’ve actually figured out what the issue was.
The serious issue in this case was that there was no regulator to address and investigate these claims and enforce a recall much sooner before more animals were put in danger. Instead Mars was able to quietly carry out their own investigations believing the food was not the issue. Regardless of whether that was a fair belief we needed an immediate recall pending investigation to protect animals and consumers. A regulator would have the power to do that.
Change is badly needed but it’s important that we be fighting with facts.
I received the following from the Office of the Minister for Agriculture and Water resources today 03 01 2019 regarding pet food . It says they hope to meet before the end of 2018 I think it is now 2019 .
Correspondence from the Office of the Minister for Agriculture and Water Resources [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
12:07 (4 hours ago)
Thank you for your email supporting the recommendations of the Senate Standing Committee on Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport following its inquiry into regulatory approaches to ensure the safety of pet food in Australia. I know Australians care deeply for their pets and want to ensure the food they buy for them is safe and nutritious.
You may be interested to learn that I wrote to my state and territory counterparts in May this year to seek their support for a review of policy settings to ensure the safety of pet food in Australia. I was therefore pleased to see that all state and territory governments endorsed the development of a working group to consider the senate inquiry recommendations. The working group includes members from the Australian and state and territory governments, Food Standards Australia New Zealand, the Australian Veterinary Association, the RSPCA and the Pet Food Industry Association of Australia.
The group expect to meet before the end of 2018 and will provide recommendations to agriculture ministers in 2019 about how to best manage pet food safety and ensure we do not see any further pet food related injuries or deaths in Australia. I have asked my department to expedite this work.
Thank you again for your correspondence.
Chief of Staff
Office of the Minister of Agriculture and Water Resources
Thanks Vax2000 - I should have known we could count on you to get the ball rolling!
My thoughts exactly.
Since I received the ABC News article warning about feeding dogs, especially small breeds, raw chicken, I have been cooking the chicken necks for our puppy. One minute on high in a bowl covered with cling wrap in the microwave and 10 minutes or so to cool down.
My sister’s dog, a Welsh Springer Spaniel, is almost 18 years old, well over the life expectancy for the breed of 12 – 15 years, as a result of always receiving the very best care possible.
However, the dog is going in her hindquarters and can no longer squat or walk down the staircase so she has to be carried, and my sister is now wondering if feeding her raw chicken necks for many years is responsible for, or has contributed to, her hindquarter problems.
Better to be safe than sorry.
Cooked bones are very dangerous to dogs and cats. If you want to cook meat that is fine but don’t cook the bone. 1 minute in a microwave for almost any meat is insufficient to cause the sterilising effect you seem to be aiming for and is more likely to increase bacterial counts as the meat in most places would only be warmed to a temp that promotes the growth of organisms and the bone could become not, or not very, digestible. Cooking meat also alters the nutrient profile and is not generally recommended for canines.
From https://www.petmd.com/dog/nutrition/evr_dg_raw_bones_or_cooked_bones “Cooked bones should always be off-limits. They become brittle and easily break into sharp shards that can do a lot of damage when they pass through the gastrointestinal tract. Never feed your dog cooked bones. This includes those that originate in your kitchen and those that can be purchased. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) reports that between Nov. 1, 2010 and Sept. 12, 2017, it received accounts of 90 dogs who became sick after eating commercially-available smoked or baked bone treats. Fifteen of the dogs died.”
And from the American Kennel Club website “Poultry and pork bones, or cooked bones of any kind, are strictly forbidden. They splinter into shards that can cause choking and serious damage to the dog’s mouth, throat, or intestines. Cooking can also remove nutrients from the bone.”
And in response to the AKC post the RSPCA as you have previously linked to state that raw chicken wings are acceptable fare.
Raw chicken has not been linked to any joint issues in any studies. Just like humans a senior dog is going to start to experience degradation in their cartilage and joints. The best preventative is feeding a high quality food that contains a strong source of Glucosamine and Chondroiton (the substances that builds joints). The best relief for an older dog is a prescription anti-inflammatory. Personally I’ve also had success with Canine Rose Hip Vital for my dogs as a basic anti-inflammatory
Fred1232 my ex was a Veterinary Surgeon and he did copious emergency stomach operations on dogs that had eaten COOKED bones - please do not cook your puppy’s chicken necks, even 1 minute in the microwave is enough to promote the tiny little bones to become brittle and sharp and then once your beautiful puppy has eaten them - and it will be impossible for him to completely pulverise all of those tiny bones found in chicken necks, they go on to splinter and possibly tear his oesophagus and stomach, causing intense and acute bleeding and immeasurable pain.
Feed him chicken necks by all means, but only RAW, never ever cooked.
If you had seen the intense suffering and pain that the dog’s go through after eating cooked bones, you would not even consider it… RAW bones by all means, but for the safety and care of your beautiful puppy it simply is not worth taking the risk of cooked bones.
It may never happen to your puppy, but is it really worth taking the risk?
Please think of your dog xx