That is a shocker @kathy2 and thanks for posting your experience. I merged it into the complaints topic and updated the topic title accordingly.
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You were speaking to a CSR who probably has no training or skills in security.
Most banks have multi-layered security and I would expect that if the alleged fraudster had the correct expiry date and also CVV number then 2FA would be done - it’s called 3-D Secure - Wikipedia where a SMS is sent with OTP after the previous checks are completed.
Most times if payment is declined the bank won’t notify the cardholder and wait until there’s a few declines as it could be that the cardholder has done a few typos or other innocent reasons. That the bank notified the cardholder on first wrong attempt is to be praised as this is extra costs and worry and time that the bank could have avoided by not notifying you the cardholder (they don’t have to). It could be that the alleged fraudster used a random number generator.
The fact that the money is going to a known and recoverable government entity is also a factor in the seemingly blasé attitude - it’s easier to recover then if it was sent to a private entity where it could more easily be sent overseas and unrecoverable.
I would rather security resources be spent on “successful” attempts then wasted on single attempts (albeit large) that may end up being a wild goose chase.
If you are still concerned about the event contact the ATO or report it to ACCC at Report a scam | Scamwatch . The ACCC report only takes five minutes online and you can pass your contact details to find out the results of your report.
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What you have written sounds like the mojo of scammers. This is a similar, but slightly different example.. It smells strongly of a scammer as who would use someone else’s credit card to pay the ATO $50k. Either the person trying to make the fraudulent transaction is incredibly stupid, wants to get caught or is the "‘scenario’ manufactured by scammers to hook the unwary (I know which one it is most likely to be).
Where did you get the Westpac Card Services number from? I hope it wasn’t from the…
If it was, you may have been talking to scammers rather than Westpac.
One of our neighbours had a very similar experience…and was being led up the proverbial garden path by scammers. They ‘acted’ as being from the ANZ credit card team, ANZ fraud team and Federal Police (this occurred further down the scam). They also asked similar questions about doing things online and also suspicious transactions which didn’t go through. They were persistent trying to get more and more information to perpetuate their scam and build trust. They also asked about maximum bank transfers that could be done and also what funds were available in ANZ and other banks. They sounded legitimate and gave reference numbers with each call. Many things didn’t add up such as not calling the bank other than using the phone numbers they provided (one was the number of the card team investigating officer and the other number was the ‘fraud team’). They argued it was an inside job for the fraudulent transactions and why Federal Police were involved and why usual public contact numbers couldn’t be used. The ‘bank’ also gave out the Federal Police case number as well. Tge ‘bank’ could slso do phone transfers to the Federal Police’, direct to the investigating officer who could also, as it happens, transfer calls back to the ‘relevant bank officers’. They were spinning a web to trap our neighbour in their scam. It is one of the more cunning and sophisticated ones I have heard of and got the neighbour to report it to the police and Scamwatch.
I suggest you call Westpac Cards Customer Service Call Centre on…
Contact us immediately on 1300 651 089, or if outside Australia +61 2 9155 7700.
to discuss the call you have had and to make sure it was them who made contact with you. If not, they should be able to assist you in relation to risks of fraudulent transactions should you have passed any information onto the callers.
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The Australian Federal Police may take interest in a report about the attempted transaction. I say may as it is hit and miss with them.
The fact is, that so-called “competition watchdogs” are little more than pups asking Big Business to scratch their tummies.
Facts that come to mind:
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The Rural Bank of New South Wales changed its name to the State Bank NSW in 1982. In 1994 it was bought by Colonial Mutual (an insurance giant) and in 2000 that was sold to the CBA. What were the watchdogs thinking in 2000? Here’s an idea: sell the bank to a foreign player (HSBC, Arab Bank etc) and hence raise the level of what passes for competition in the marketplace;
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Australian Airlines in 1992 was allowed to be bought by QF. If it was sold to say SQ, CX, UA, DL (or a Chinese carrier), the traveling public would have at best more competition and at worst, the potential for more competition.
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When ALDI started in NSW it faced appalling obstacles in securing sites by the Big 2 supermarket chains. One case comes to mind:
in eastern Sydney where Coles had/still has a large store, no doubt paying handsome taxes (including land tax), I understand it threatened to exit its lease if ALDI would open up within walking distance. This stifled ALDI for many years before somehow getting the go ahead to move in.
As a result we have the eye rolling situation of Coles having 2 supermarkets some 200 meters apart!
Target in the area recently closed and was rebadged as KMART. It is now some 200 meters from a long established KMART. One can only conclude that the aim of the rebadging is to thwart Big W taking up the space formerly occupied by Target.
The bean counters at KMART and Coles no doubt weigh up the extra cost of a 2nd store compared to the possible annihilation of sales if a robust competitor gave KMART and Coles a run for their shareholders’ money.
Deserving of a cross link to (not Westpac but germane)
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In December 2022 I discovered 2 debit transactions from my Westpac cheque account for approximately $60 to a vendor for a purchase which was unknown to me.
I phoned Westpac and the helpful respondent said he could find no information about the first transaction and could not examine the second transaction because it had not been “cleared”. He agreed that the transaction looked fraudulent and recommended that I should get a new debit card and should refer the matter to Westpac’s “fraud” dept. I followed both these recommendations and then received a computer-generated email from Westpac that requested the following information
- A description of the goods/service purchased
- For merchandise only:
- The date the merchandise was received
- Details of how the merchandise was received damaged/defective or not as described
- The date you returned or attempted to return the merchandise
- The method used to return the merchandise i.e. via post or face to face. Please provide evidence e.g. Tracking number or return receipt
- For services only:
- Details of how the service purchased was either not as described or defective
- The date you cancelled or attempted to cancel the service with the Merchant
- Documentation from an expert or industry professional that supports your dispute about the level of quality or misrepresentation of goods/services received
- A statement that you have attempted to resolve the dispute with the Merchant, the date of your attempt and the Merchant’s response
- Copies of all correspondence with the Merchant and any additional supporting documents
I replied to Westpac that to my knowledge, I had received no goods or services and had no supporting documentation and a week or so later received a reply from Westpac that said:
“Our Fraud Team has reviewed the relevant transaction and the documents you have provided us. The transaction was found to be authorised by you or a party authorised to use the account. As you, or someone with authority on the account authorised the transaction our Fraud Team won’t be taking any further action.”
I think that I would be wasting my time to pursue this matter further with Westpac.
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Ouch. A double ouch with Westpac’s response.
Is this the procedure you were asked to follow?
It indicates that Westpac will refund the customer except where the customer has contributed to the loss. If you intend to take the matter further that would be a key point to raise. Has Westpac demonstrated how you contributed to the loss? It’s a relatively small amount, however not knowing how would be a concern.
Note that Westpac also refers to the Card issuers T&C’s as also applying. Eg VISA if a VISA debit card. I’ve experienced attempted fraud against my VISA card in the past. Fortunately, whoever had the card details was using it for a large purchase. It triggered a request to my mobile number to verify the purchase. For lesser amounts there may be no trigger.
P.S.
That Westpac are asserting the customer authorised the transaction directly or indirectly, one would expect the Westpac fraud team have further knowledge of the transaction.
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It seems odd that a scammer would steal so little but also that having taken a little they then stopped. When the first two transactions went through surely they would try to get more until the well dried up.
I have seen weird entries on my statement that were quite unknown to me until I cross checked the amount and date and identified what it was. The name on the statement had no resemblance to the name of vendor or any name on their invoice.
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Westpac can tell if the card was presented when a purchase is made (this is something that card issuers record as part of the transaction).
If the card was presented for the purchase and the card isn’t reported as lost or stolen, Westpac will quickly find that the transaction has been authorised by the cardholder (as the card was presented for the transaction).
A question, have you lost or had a card stolen in the time immediately before the transaction occurred? If you haven’t, then you most likely will have presented your card (or someone else who you let use the card) and forgotten what the transaction was for. To prevent this occurring in the future, keep receipts of purchases for reconciliation when your card account statement has been received or keep a diary/notebook of transactions you have done.
Your bank Westpac will have initiated contact with the other side, the Merchant’s bank to get details. Seems they are satisfied that the transaction(s) were legitimate.
I know from my experience that December is a hard month trying to reconcile since I have been out Christmas shopping and going online for gift buying. Trying to reconcile entries in bank statements is not easy, as often the details are very different to the shop name or online site name.
Although decades later than my ‘war story’ with (hopefully) better IT systems everywhere, it is not always ‘the customer’.
As unlikely as it may be, it can happen. The Visa or Mastercard systems should be able to provide details of the where and when and often the details of the transaction, not just that it was ‘yours’.
Of course the debited account was mentioned as being a cheque account, which means a transaction account, so Eftpos network. Nothing to do with credit card networks, so they can’t help.
Depends if it was a direct debit, a debit card processed as an EFTPOS or through the credit network … that detail is omitted unless I missed it.
As you indicate, my statement only shows the date for a ‘debit’ processed as an EFTPOS transaction but does include other details when it was processed through the credit card networks, eg waved for example; direct debits are clearly marked as such.
In all cases there is a [transaction] ‘receipt number’ shown that could lead to further details, at least with ING.
Assuming it was a personal and not a business account, the Everyday (cheque) Banking Account with Westpac can have a Westpac (EFTPOS) Handycard and/or MasterCard Debit Card issued under the account. If a MC has been issued and used, transactions will go through the credit card system.
If it was the Handycard which has been issued and used, these can only be presented in person.
The comments by other members were interesting but I’m afraid that I have little confidence in Westpac and the response that I received. My impression was that there had been little intelligent human involvement and the whole process has been computer-driven.
Sometimes I find it difficult to track a purchase made from a retailer when the payment is made to another entity. If that was the case, I would expect Westpac to provide an explanation.
When possible, I use PayPal which always provides details of any purchases.
The entry on my online Westpac Choice account reads:
DEBIT CARD PURCHASE drgpctfrlv.com Nicosia CYP USD 39.99 incl. Foreign Transaction Fee AUD $1.78.
Once further transactions against my debit card were stopped by Westpac and a new card issued no further similar transactions were made.
I imagine that a smart “hacker” would steal small amounts in the hope that they would not attract attention.
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The company located in Cyprus appears to be an overarching membership/subscription sales company. They have a chat and US phone number but that does not necessarily prove they are an upstanding company. You could have a go, with caution, at discovering what the charge was for via their chat, Westpac not needed – I share your view of their ‘service’.
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It would have been good to know the transaction details in the first post - I suspect members assumed it was a local purchase that was inadvertently forgotten about.
As it appears you have a MasterCard debit card which has been used for the transaction, I would be pursuing a chargeback, providing the transaction was recent and within the window Westpac MC allows chargebacks to occur. See if this provides any success.
Have you has a renewal email about a virus scanner, VPN, cloud storage, domains, software you use etc and thought the renewal was legitimate and paid for continuing subscription? There are heaps of such emails going around asking one to re-subscribe for services which don’t need renewals at this point of time. We are aware of McAfee renewal emails where renewals are fraudulent in nature from companies based in Ireland or Europe. A way for such unscrupulous businesses to make money from unsuspecting/unquestioning consumers.
Alternatively, have you registered a product and given card details as part of the registration. This offen occurs for services which have a free trial period but require a consumer to actively cancel the service before pay service period commences.
It could be the source as the company drgpctfrlv appears to offer subscription type payment services which leads to the above conclusion.
The process for chargeback should be different, to a fraud investigation however, if you inadvertently subscribed to something in good faith even though it wasn’t needed, Westpac may give the same response as previously given - that the transaction was authorised by you and you are therefore responsible for it.
As banks tend to now issue new CVV numbers with each new card issue, the new card would have ‘broken’ the ability to add new automatic payments. If you have other automatic direct debits to the card, such as phone, rates etc, make sure you update payment details with the organisations where the direct debit occurs otherwise you may get payment failures in the future.
The domain was registered in January 2022 and virustotal says only 1 out of 90 antivirus service says it’s bad.
