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The "Never Never Broadband Network" - NBN complaints

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#243

:thumbsup:

My apologies. I was being ironic and seriously tongue in cheek, but I couldn’t find an icon for it. (See edit.)


#244

I probably wouldn’t have worked it out today even if there was an icon for it :slight_smile:

… but wouldn’t 10 gig be nice !! and it gave me a good excuse to vaguely research population density …


#245

My maximum download (www.speedtest.net) in 3.5 years, but probably almost 6 years, is 11.40 Mbps (0.0114 Gbps) on ADSL 2+. So for me 10Gbps would be 1000x my current speed.

"To sleep, perchance to dream – ay, there’s the rub, for in this sleep of death [edit: of truly high speed internet] what dreams may come…” (Hamlet)


#246

Voters have to pick a total package to govern, and this is an element of the mentality they saluted.


#247

Turnbull’s comments should be added to Wikipedia’s list of incorrect predictions.


#248

Reckon MT was impressed by

“I think there is a world market for maybe five computers.” - Thomas Watson, president of IBM, 1943
“There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.” - Ken Olsen, founder of Digital Equipment Corporation, 1977
“Almost all of the many predictions now being made about 1996 hinge on the Internet’s continuing exponential growth. But I predict the Internet will soon go spectacularly supernova and in 1996 catastrophically collapse.” - Robert Metcalfe, founder of 3Com, 1995


#249

They can’t talk 10 Gbps because under the rules that support NBN Co (and it’s protected status) SIPs can only offer the max 1 Gbps to residential consumers that NBN Co can offer. It is a false market limit not a real tech limit.

Yes for the vast area we cover we do have a small per sq kilometre coverage, but the large majority of people do not live in areas like the Simpson, Tanami, Great Stoney deserts, the Kimberleys, Pilbara, Nullabor and similar areas of Australia. While I do not wish those people to have any less of a service, it has ever been thus and certainly needs to change if we want our Country to grow successfully.

The 3 person is always the figure they use to say why the price of fitting Fibre to the home is an average $4k per household but it was never intended at this stage of the NBN to be servicing with Fibre anywhere else but larger population density areas. Even worse some of these high density areas are not even getting Fibre but are getting FTTN, FTTC, and in some cases fixed Wifi and satellite to service their needs and can’t go back to ADSL2 if they wished they could.

Parts of Sydney are at levels around 15,000 people per sq km and averages for all of Sydney a little below 5,000 per sq km. Take any large centres in Australia and the densities are quite high. Same for many close regional areas too. These are areas that can be given higher speeds now and if priced higher than is actual cost the extra can be funnelled into providing a better service for those outside the large population areas (subsidising).

There is great tech out there to make “bush” communications better but the “bent” of the powers that be in Canberra is not really about providing that. If you take Mr Turnbull’s 25 Mbps line we could have had that just by fitting “TopHats” to enable that limit on ADSL2 to most of Australia, Telstra was rolling it out but stopped on the announcement of Rudd’s mostly 100 Mbps plan (they couldn’t compete with that top speed). Then Turnbull killed the 100, removed Telstra from the 25 Mbps equation by buying out the copper from them for the NBN copper to the home and legislating that no one could go onto ADSL once NBN was slated for an area. If I was a conspiracy theorist my Tin Foil hat would be firmly on my head by now.


#250

I’m waiting for 5G, if it ever becomes available out here in the sticks, with decent data allowance and not too expensive plans.

NBN satellite is pretty useless, any talk of Gbps is pie in the sky stuff out here! :wink:


#251

https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/tech/2018/02/19/missed-installation-appointments-mean-penalties-nbn-co/

Government really cares about us! Not! Bold added :open_mouth:

The penalties have not been finalised, but figures have been proposed in industry discussions: $25 per connection for every missed appointment above an agreed acceptable level of missed appointments.

This money would not be paid to the consumer. Instead it would go to the retail company such as Telstra or Optus.

There were 82,552 missed appointments in the 2016 calendar year.


#252

Wow, not sure the logic on that one. As quoted in the article, Teresa Corbin, CEO of the consumer group ACCAN, pointed out that it’s consumers facing a key detriment from the missed appointments.


#253

I’ve had a couple of installs over the years, including pre-NBN - many appointments where nobody turns up and the wasted time off work or 30 km each way drive back to town for the appointment that never happened.

The strangest was during the latest NBN install a couple years ago - I got the message the service was up and running. Someone had been at the house all day - when I managed to get the story, NBN confirmed the address and contact details, said their contractor had come out to the house, tested the connection and found it to be fine and operational, had inspected my modem/router and deemed it unsuitable and advised the person at the premises this was the case, and left. The person who was at the house waiting for NBN hadn’t seen anyone all day …


#254

Just like with the ACCC. Consumers who have been affected get nothing from the fines imposed on businesses.

Why are consumers held to have so little value that they don’t deserve recompense? (This is a rhetorical question, as I know that while the Government and large business give lip service to being there for consumers, in reality, they are there for their own gain. There is no altruism when it comes to this sort of thing.)


#255

You don’t need to be a conspiracy theorist to know that the LNP gutted the potential of the NBN. The LNP announced it before Abbott was voted in as PM in 2014, in what I believe was a deal with Murdoch to save Foxtel (from Netflix-friendly FTTP, the real NBN,) in exchange for a media “shoe-in” to Government. We all remember the then PM Gillard witch hunt by Abbott and others like Allan Jones, and how much media coverage that was so pro-LNP.
And we got Abbott as PM - OMG! What a disaster for Australia. The disaster continues.


#256

NBN satellite, thick cloud, but not raining (rain= no internet)… I’m just attempting to download some software and have this reminder displayed in the download window:

“Sorry, it looks like you’re on a slow connection, so this might take a while”

No sh…, Sherlock!


#257

OOOOH we don’t need high speed internet like the rest of the developed world do we?


#258

Why does he need it…he said only 25/5 was all that was required so he should be allocated only that.


#259

They said they only had one conversation with the NBN about getting the connection, firstly why with the NBN and not an RSP like everyone else and secondly who in the NBN is going to miss an appointment to connect the PM? Your life wouldn’t be worth living if you failed to do it when planned and you would need to get it right the first time. Imagine the conversation that took place…“This is for connection of the PM, this is the time and day we want it, no foul ups are allowed, make sure you get it right or else” and the answer from the NBN “We will send a complete team of contractors and managers to ensure nothing goes wrong. Thank you for the warning”


#260

That’s so familiar. It brings back memories.

That is what every Minister (whether Senior or Junior) gets from their Department’s IT&C areas.

That is why they have absolutely no idea about the real world!


#261

As reported elsewhere, I recently managed to pull off a transfer from NBN satellite to fixed wireless. After some teething problems due to faulty equipment, the performance is quite impressive.

Initially, the fixed wireless was actually slower than satellite, but felt faster. Satellite’s ~600 ms latency makes a substantial difference, compared to the ~30 ms of wireless.

NBN Co is now upgrading some fixed wireless towers. By some reports, quite a lot of them. That they need to do that, this early in the game, says a lot about their planning. Maybe sharing “up to” 900 Mb/s between “up to” 2640 premises wasn’t such a good idea. Those figures come from their network design rules (page 45 in the 30 June 2017 edition).

A while back, NBN were touting their capacity to run gigabit fixed wireless. That is only possible where the tower is connected to the rest of the network by optical fibre. To quote from the linked article:

According to NBN corporate public affairs manager Tony Brown, only 20 percent of NBN’s fixed-wireless towers are connected by fibre, …

With demand continuing to rise, that’s probably going to have to change.


#262

Did you hear the new joke? It’s a really good one, it still has me laughing (seriously NOT).

The Federal Government submission to the ACCC’s ‘NBN wholesale service standards inquiry’ asks that the ACCC stop being so harsh on the nbn Co as it is a once in a generational type endeavour

"Likewise, nbn reports that the NBN experience for the majority of customers is generally positive, with 85 per cent of consumers reporting that their service meets or exceeds their expectations. This result is in the context of a massive and inherently disruptive network migration process. And as nbn has publicly acknowledged, this is simply a base from which to deliver higher levels of satisfaction. The rollout is in many respects a once in a generation event – given the substantial focus and resources devoted to the rollout, once the rollout is complete, it would be appropriate for more stringent standards to apply from when nbn enters a ‘steady-state’. "

“While nbn’s wholesale customers may not always agree with the various rules applying to the operation of the service standards, the rules are not necessarily unreasonable, particularly in the context of the stage of nbn’s rollout. It is up to nbn to provide a rationale on why it has chosen to include specific terms and conditions in WBA3, and these need to be considered on their merits, and in the context of a network still under construction. It may be that, when the NBN is complete, stronger connection and repair timeframes could be considered, for example, taking into account the greater availability of network infrastructure.”

& in the conclusion

“The ACCC is encouraged to monitor the market and to clearly identify the sources of outstanding problems rather than imposing wholesale standards in the short term and risking destabilising nbn’s efforts to balance consumer outcomes against meeting its network deployment goals.”

85% are reporting it meets or exceeds their expectations? I guess if you expect nothing then it must meet or exceed your expectations if it just manages to work. If you are only counting Mal Turnbull you might get close to 85%.

They are going to deliver higher levels of satisfaction using the MTM? Ok I am starting to get bile rising in my throat.

Stronger connection and repair timeframes could be considered once the NBN is wholly complete, what a slippery oil track that one is, only considering?? and only “could be”?? (not even a definite “will be”) and framing that considering in light of the “greater availability of network infrastructure” If it is complete you would certainly hope there is greater network infrastructure or what the _ _ _ _ are we paying for.

nbn Co has non-binding performance targets and as a Wholesale provider they are not bound to provide any performance targets. “The ACCC has queried nbn’s use of non-binding operational targets. nbn monitors performance against these and has indicated they may be developed into a more formal service level assurance in the future. As a wholesale provider, nbn is not bound to offer any performance targets. Rather, it has established these as a commercial response to the needs of its wholesale customers.” In other words they can say we will achieve xyz by abc and then do nothing and just “maybe” we will get more a more formal assurance in the future.

Want to read their entire submission see https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Department%20of%20Communications%20and%20the%20Arts%20-%20NBN%20wholesale%20service%20standards%20inquiry%20-%205%20March%202018.pdf

Want to read some real thoughts instead see

&

I just couldn’t bring myself to place anymore Government speak into this item. I got actually physically ill reading the submission.

Has Choice made a submission, if not they should seriously consider doing so. This utter debacle that they call the NBN has to be put under intense scrutiny and made to respond to real needs rather than function in the delusional dream world the Federal Government is seemingly adsorbed in.