I wish there was an angry emoticon because there just arent any polite words from me for this mob.
I meant one built in, like that heart one. I know what one is, I use them freely where available, but if I donāt want to comment and I do want to express my disgust, Iām afraid a tiny 
isnt quite enough
Type in : a n g r y : without the spaces and including the colons. If I remove the spaces, I get 
Ray* in Cedun saysā¦
Iām embarrassed every time I have to use it at the supermarket, which is about the only place I do use it. I sort of look around and see whoās behind me in the queue. I donāt want anybody to see me using it.
Maryanne* in Shepparton told about being judged for shopping for groceries with her BasicsCard.
If you are like me and never knowingly seen the card, it looks like this:
An average consumer like myself would not even know what it was or care to look if I was the retailer accepting the card (as most just point to the EFTPOS terminal and the cardholder completes the transaction).
I even had to look up to find an image of it ā¦ and it looks very much like any other bank issued Visa Debit card, just with a different insignia on the top left. I have a bank issued Visa Debit card which is the same colour, just with the bankās logo instead of Indue. I however wonāt be worried if others incorrectly think I am using an Indue cardā¦because confusion could be real if one believes some Indue card holders.
I wonder if some are being a little preciousā¦and such publicity about potentially not wanting others to know they have the card may work in the governmentās favour. Those who feel uncomfortable, the government may argue, may give them another reason to find employment to ensure that they donāt have to rely on the Newstart allowance.
When you were a teenager were you embarrassed by many things or lacked self esteem in some area or another, that as you grew older you realised nobody else cared about? And in some cases perhaps any lack of related self respect was justified at the time?
It is human nature, so just asking.
One related philosophy that has been generally disproven is that when someone is down and out, the harder you kick them the more likely they are to respond favourably to your expectations. Is that not the case? In some cultures if you tried this (Indue), and embarrassed the person enough, they might do without the basics of life to their own detriment rather than to lose face in public, as they see it.
Itās a very sensitive issue.
It may have been better left for the government to make that argument, and be judged for it?
I canāt say that Iād ever want to fess up to receiving a government allowance when I was unemployed. Itās a long time past. Iāve lived that only once, cheque in the mail fortnightly.
I know how to get an angry into a comment. That isnt what I am talking bout.
Something like thisā¦
Instead of thisā¦
From Facebook:
Perhaps the time has come to put the pay and allowances of politicians and their staffs through the card. Whatās good for the goose ā¦
[edit]
More on the study mentioned in the Conversation:
We have good friends that receive such payments as well as many others (inc. family members) that receive social security payments in one form or another from Centrelink. They are part of the 2.5 million people receiving the age pension, 750,000 receiving the disability support pension, 2.5 million receiving some form of Family Tax Benefit or 750,000 receiving Newstart. They donāt seem to have any issue with being know for receiving such payments and are appreciative of the safety net which exists in Australia. They have also been fully employed in the past and realise that the taxes they have paid in the past afforded them the ability to draw on this safety net.
Unfortunately there are those who think that getting any support is a stigma or something to hide, like those alleged recipients in the Conservation article.
Those who get any welfare of any form should be appreciative of the support offered by the government, as it is only fairly recent generations which have been afforded a government welfare system. It would be grateful and reasonable to show appreciation, like our family and friends, rather than bite the hand that provides the support. We are lucky/fortunate to live in a country which offers its permanent residents a generous welfare system.
If those highly critical of or are concerned about receiving such payments due to the perceived stigma or conditions in placed to receive the benefits, they have the choice to opt out as the welfare system in Australia is voluntary and triggered by the request of an individual.
It might seem a hard line to take, but when one is fully reliant on welfare, they must accept the conditions associated with receiving the benefits. These conditions are in place to ensure that the benefits go to the right individuals and also to ensure that it is spent appropriately on those who need the support.
The question to ask them next is will they willingly accept their future payments via a government provided debit card such as the Indue card?
For some openly sharing they are on Newstart or a Pension or ā¦ may not be a concern. For others it is.
Is the Indue card there because some need it as they canāt manage their welfare or are some also avoiding employment as others might suggest? Such positioning risks a label every Indue card holder is unreliable or worse?
On that we agree! 
This is far from the universal experience. Most people treat the age pension and child payments as a right that everybody should claim. The family child payments were actually intended to be a form of negative taxation for low income earners regardless of employment status.
The other pensions that go to the disabled, single mothers etc and the benefits for unemployed, short term illness etc are not viewed as being neutral by many.
- Disability pensions have been a political plaything for many governments with many trying to tighten up eligibility through tougher rules on how disabled the applicant must be.
- Single mothers have often been singled out criticism for the manifestly moral crowd, not only do you have to raise one or more children on a pittance you have to put up with being called āsporting mothersā (instead of supporting mothers) with accusations that it is an industrial scale rort. Become promiscuous and get paid for it.
- Newstart as it is called now has been the target of so much crap it is hard to know where to start. If ever there was an underclass who was told daily how inferior they are it is those unemployed. This includes so many meaningless rituals that must be negotiated and severe cuts to payments if you donāt.
The common thread for all that group is victim blaming, the view that they only claim because they are lazy or immoral, or both, the view that it is a choice. This is despite the constant fact over time that there simply are not enough jobs for them and those who claim are often in possession of one or more serious disadvantage when it comes to gaining employment. This treatment wounds people and does nothing to motivate them to work.
I have seen:
- A qualified and competent bricklayer who was employed casually. Due to a downswing in the construction industry combined with bad weather he was not getting any jobs. He was too proud to apply for benefits and all the family savings ran down until in tears his wife begged him to apply.
- An ordinary man who had a good employment history was required to attend for a personal interview monthly to answer the same questions over and over again and give the same answers. He described it as being asked to regularly take his pants down in public.
- A late middle aged professional who had fallen on hard times, got divorced and ended up having no money. It was the first time he had ever applied for anything, he did not treat it as safety net but an admission of failure. During his interview he burst into tears and could not go on. He would not say where he was living, in the end he passed a slip of paper across the table saying āMatthew Talbot Hostelā (a Sydney charity hostel for the homeless).
I could go on but I doubt I could stay the course, I had hoped to not relive this stuff. If you spend any time with this part of society you soon realise that the view from the bottom is very different from the middle or the top. And those at the top who make the rules are generally clueless about the existence of that different view much less have any understanding of it. But itās OK to create new schemes like the Indue card that treat everyone the same regardless of circumstances and regardless of the perverse anomalies it creates because they are not us.
Iād never have known. Around these parts we seem to have the āBasics Cardā, and I couldnāt honestly tell you the last time I noticed anyoneās credit/debit/etc card in detail.
I donāt think people are being precious as such, āsensitiveā or āself-consciousā might be other terms that could be used? and I could understand it, but there are two sides to every story and when dealing with the government we tend to have to dance to their tune and hope there is a seat when the music stops.
Does the government have a responsibility to ensure money is spent where it is needed?
In one case - child support - Iād fully support the money contributed going to a controlled spend channel of some kind, but thatās me, from my experience - āone size fits allā usually means it wonāt fit anyone properly ! I donāt see welfare as free money, from there it seems to get complex ā¦
All that aside, where we see the Basics Card used, horse trading gets around the restrictions every time. It might make it a little harder, but there is always a way ā¦
Thats really harsh. I hope you never find yourself in that position.
Pros, cons but mostly right-wing ideology.
The LNP Govt have introduced a Bill to enable a measure mentioned in the Budget to make the Indue Card trial āongoingā:
With at least 1/2 of the participants in the trials actually saying it doesnāt work, creates stigma etc why is the LNP still so keen to drive this.
From the article linked above:
" Peer-reviewed research has consistently shown the card, and income management more broadly, do not meet policy objectives. A 2020 academic study of multiple locations found compulsory income management ācan do as much harm as goodā.
Survey respondents reported not having enough cash for essential items, while the research found the card ācan also stigmatise and infantilise usersā."
LNP and mates are making money off it. Why elseā¦
Ouch, if one relies on a Federal Govt card for your benefits. Of course the problem is all down to Telstraās mobile services falling over for 5 days. No mention of the NBN?
