Yet the AEMC typical demand usage for a 24 hour period (These are 2018 Prices but the demand is typical of current usage) https://www.aemc.gov.au/energy-system/electricity/electricity-market/spot-and-contract-markets
The lowest wholesale usage (price is correlated) is between 0900 - 1600 at approx 4000 Mwh
2200 - 0600 Is the next highest usage at approx 4500 Mwh
0600 - 0900 is peak 1 at approx 6500 Mwh
1600 - 2200 is peak 2 at approx 11500 Mwh
So why isnât the 0900 - 1400 time period the off peak rate? Why is the Shoulder price in the article priced at 65% more than the off peak rate when in fact the shoulder period price should be 12% lower than the off peak tariff? There seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors in the electricity market.
When looking at off peak, shoulder and peak smart meter tariffs, these tariffs arenât based only on the demand of the network. They are also based on generation capacity. Spot price is very much dependent on both side of the network, namely demand and generation capacity/supply. When demand reaches what can be supplied, spot prices increase substantially. When there is excess generation capacity which exceeds demand, spot prices decrease. This is reflected in the graphs within the link that you posted.
In some states (e.g. Tasmania), there is residential off peak tariffs during the day M-F (10am to 4pm) and at night (9pm - 7am) with peaks at other times. Off peak occurs over the weekends. Business have different tiers, namely M-F 7am - 10pm is peak, S- S: 7am - 10pm is Shoulder and
M - Sun: 10pm - 7am is off peak. These different tariffs are based on generation capacity and demand average profiles of the users.
Generation capacity is becoming particularly more important with the move towards renewable electricity sources. In the future, it is possible that off peak may no longer occur during night hours but during the day (from say 10am to 2pm) when solar generation is also at a maximum. At night, demand will need to be supported by storage, gas or other forms of reliable supply. The cost of supply during the night is likely to increase substantially even though the demand is low. This may be reflected in future night hour tariffs.
You are comparing the national price structure on one day in 2018 with a price structure provided by Choice as an example which does not say (as far as I can see) what time interval or location it is drawn from or even if they are real world figures.
If you want to compare daily usage patterns with daily rate patterns I think it would be important to match the two data collections for time and place and ensure that you are using accurate real world data, otherwise you are guessing about the reason for any apparent discrepancy.
There may well be some smoke and mirrors in the market but the information presented so far doesnât bear on that question.
It is not rewarding to try to correlate generation and wholesale prices to what the utility retailers charge on their plans. The retailers variously set their own peak, off-peak, and shoulder times as well as tariffs and widely differing daily rates to make it as difficult as they can to compare how any given plan will affect any specific consumer.
Compare.energy.vic.gov.au does it for us Victorians based on trailing actual use, and energymadeeasy.gov.au is there for the rest, although from what I glean from Community posts it is not up to the Victoria standard.
It continues to surprise how many consumers remain oblivious to those government compares and ask âfriends and neighbours to recommendâ or use the commercial faux comparison sites that essentially tout their own corporate group products.
Just received a letter stating that my âopt outâ is over come 1/6/2025
I am aware of the use of these to have multiple billing rates , what other wonderful price gouging things should I expect ?
KD
There are numerous existing topics in the community sharing views on smart meters and tariff choices. Some related observations in this topic to which your post has been moved.
Also to search the site using âsmart metersâ or
âElectricity tariffâ will find other topics with related content.
There is usually a per day smart meter charge if you have solar panels, I donât think they apply the charge if you donât have solar panels but still have a smart meter installed.
Many retailers still supply flat rate plans on smart meters, rather than any time of use (TOU) plans, though if it suits your usage you can still opt in or find time of use plans that might suit you. One of the benefits to retailers is that the smart meters are able to send usage data back to them for billing purposes without having to send a person out to read the device thus a cost saving. Another is they can stop supply to a premises remotely such as for load shedding and resupply when load shedding requirements are over.
A smart meter may be useful even to a non solar user as it will allow a user to see when they may be using lots of power during certain times of the day and changing their usage patterns to smooth this out to perhaps reduce bills or to help find problem products in the home.
An article from the ABC that may help provide some information about smart meters.
One of the supposed benefits stated are âno more manual readsâ we have either self-read or put up with âEstimated readsâ that are about as accurate as a politicians version of the truth , so I do not see a smart meter as a benefit
The letter also mentions âBetter electricity usage insightsâ that means we know what you are using and when so we can charge you accordingly
Lastly âno cost to youâ well the current meter cost me nothing so I am surprised that they state this as they will quickly recoup the cost through increased charges from the local network distributor
I see these âSmart metersâ as a win/win for the supplier and distributor with me being the Bunny
KD
There are no more manual reads as the meter sends the data through, you donât have to do a self read nor do they have to do an estimated read of your usage. You can usually get an app from your retailer that allows you to see your usage broken up into whatever interval the meter sends the data at e.g., 5 or 30 minute intervals. This usage though typically available the day after, some may provide real time information. If you donât want TOU charging ensure you get a flat rate plan, most retailers provide these plans. I know our retailer Origin provides flat rate as the usual, TOU is only provided if we ask for it. A user can certainly benefit if they check their usage and find where they can save money by not using inefficient devices. Sure it is a win for the power companies, but users can be smart users as well and save themselves money by using the smart meter capability to their advantage.
If you are on an area where they canât receive the automated data, they still do manual reads.
Grahroll , that is what we have put up with over the years , self reads to get an accurate bill or Estimated reads to get âtake a guess billâ with the occasional manual read
Even got offered an inducement from the distributor to , âMums the wordâ
Anyway thanks for the info about a flat rate plan not TOU
KD
The smart meter should make all of this obsolete, your old style meter did require manual reading of the power used. Power companies no longer need people to do walk ins, so do not need access to the meter to get the readings. The meter sends the readings via a variety of possible means including wireless signals, cellular signals (mobile services) or by powerline transmission.
So that means less wages and vehicular costs passed onto the consumer , âRIGHTâ , i do not think so !!!
Who pays for the power usage of the Smart meter ?
Also we put an eLock on our meter box/board do we get a refund on the lock (haha)
The old style mechanical (spinning disc) accumulation meters also consume power. The spinning disc is a form of electric motor which powers the mechanism (shafts and gears) to move the pointers on the display. The power either type of meter consumes is insignificant compared to the transmission (power) losses between the power stations (generators) and ones in home use. Who pays for these losses? They are part of the cost of delivering the service (electricity) and factored into the rates every customer pays.
Of greater relevance to better understand the different tariffs possible with a smart meter. Pluses and minuses depending on each homes consumption and circumstances.
I get what everyone is saying but these changes are like giving a robber the keys to the safe and not expecting the unthinkable to happen
I also just noticed that it was announced today 13/3/25 that power price increases have been approved
With regard to price comparisons I have been using a spreadsheet calculator for years , ring a supplier , bang in the numbers , and see if it is dearer or cheaper than the current bill , has worked a treat plus gave me a good base to dispute from when we got guesstimated reads
Regarding the smart meters, I have now received my first Bill and am concerned that the amount charged cannot be readily ascertained as formally, by taking the differences between their meter readings against the sums charged as the quantities do not correlate.
Their advice was that the figures stated, being âsmartâ, were very accurate. I was told that the actual readings were taken 1day before those stated as being at 00:00hrs. The billed sums, for both usage, [exclusive of the Demand amount], and solar, were both higher than that stated under their stated meter readings. I was recommended to follow their App readings where the explanations and answer to my query would be found.
I wonder if anyone in our Community can clarify this practice and advise me [in layman terms], how I can best ensure that I am accurately billed according to the meter readings, and not purely on a âtrustâ basis. Thanks.
@MaryS, I moved your post into this more related topic. There are some others that may be germane, found by using the search tool for âsmart meterâ.
Your smart meter has a digital display that you can see. It has a rolling list of metrics. You can start by reading this topic, and my post there.
Note that the specific details can vary from grid operator and meter model but they will include these details. To assure what your meter is showing (eg peak, off peak, etc) and in what order contact your grid operator for those details.
If you record the details for each category they should correlate with the numbers on your bill.
NOTE: all comments and answers below relate to my situation in NSW with smart meters (Landis & Gyr) in may be different in other states.
It actually can. You have the right to request your raw meter data from your distributor (and the retailer may also have a means to supply it). You can then check the raw data against your bill to ensure they correlate. The raw data should be supplied as a csv file with either 15min or 30min breakdowns for all your usage. It will do your head in trying to manipulate the data and compare to your bills BUT in my case it was VERY definitely worthwhile.
I do not believe this is always the case, and in my case was able to prove the meter data was wrong, I have an ongoing case with my retailer regarding errors in billing that has now been continuing for around 2 years. (the case that is).
The apps are NOT guaranteed to be accurate but provide âguidanceâ only
Firstly, check your bill carefully, In my case the difference between the start and end readings was not the same as that stated (usage) on the bill.
In NSW at least you also need to be aware the retailer is NOT necessarily the holder of meter data. In my specific case, Endeavour is the distributor, origin is the retailer, and in between is a company called intellihub, who appear to own and read the data from the meters. In my specific case I can âShout outâ for Origin as they appear to be attempting to assist with meter issues HOWEVER the meter company does not appear to be answerable to anyone, does not provide information or corrections, and does not appear to be assisting Origin with correcting the meter reading inaccuracies. I also not I have texts from intellihub LYING regarding about meters and issues.
My advice is BE VERY WARY of any electricity bills. Check the bill against your raw data. And be aware that while your retailer in theory has responsibility for the information they may also be receiving âgarbageâ information from the company reading the meter.
Progress noting the draft determination is subject to consultation with all stakeholders. The stakeholders and representations made of importance. What consumers expect/need and what is delivered could differ.
Currently the proposed commencement date applies to new meters installed from 1Jan2028.
The draft determination suggests customers who currently have a smart meter and those who receive a smart meter prior to the implementation date will need to apply to convert and likely will be charged to do so. The cost is unknown at this time. Some of the key supporting arguments include cost benefits for all customers through improved utilisation of the grid and generation resources. To suggest those first to smart meters in recent years are being treated less favourably if this is how it remains.
The windows for direct involvement as a stakeholder in the consultation and for making submissions: An online forum will be held on 2 October for interested parties to ask questions and provide feedback. Formal submissions are being accepted by the AEMC until 23 October 2025. Further information is available on the AEMCâs smart meter âReal-time data for consumersâ project page. There are links accessible from the page to register for the forum and for making a submission, open to all. However submissions by large organisations and businesses tend to stand out.
The very significant majority of submissions and stakeholders consulted to date are vested business/industry. There are links to all submissions available through the AEMC web site. Closer to consumers interests may be the submissions by the National Seniors and ECA (Energy Consumers Australia), although the second ECA is a government created body and has no community membership. Best to keep an open mind as to how well a government sponsored organisation can truely reflect consumer needs.
Whether Choice has an interest in representing its membership or has a direct involvement with ECA, Choice has not to date made any submissions? @BrendanMays
P.S. The National Seniors Australia submission re the draft determination asks (brief and to the point) what many informed consumers, just not Seniors will also be concerned about.
