Not at fault car accident with third party insurance - not their problem?

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Hi,

I have third-party car insurance with Budget Direct (I figured my car is so old that the cost of comprehensive insurance would buy me a newer one every 4-5 years).

A couple of months ago someone hit my car from the side, they admitted at first but now I find myself having to chase them and their insurance to own up to it. They claim to their insurance that I’m at fault without evidence.

Budget Direct (my insurer) told me “You don’t have comprehensive insurance so see figure one”.

I thought “fair enough, that’s what insurance is like”.

But now that I’m researching the market to renew my insurance, Youi told me on the phone that they would help me chase down the other party’s insurance company if I had third-party insurance with them and it wasn’t my fault. They say they would even cover me for up to $5000 if the other party isn’t insured.

This makes me wonder:

  1. Should I believe Youi about this promise?
  2. What’s the “industry standard” for third-party property insurance? Is it more towards the Budget Direct’s or the Youi’s of the world?

And if people have both positive or negative stories about these insurers then I’m keen to hear them.

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In asking others to add comments on experiences with particular insurers or whether there is an industry standard, in context of the incident and other party:

Independent of any views about insurance cover or insurers it’s also a legal issue. The other parties insurer will approach it as such. For general guidance it’s important to understand what is required, (State/Territory) including how to respond to a claim made my the third party or their insurer. One example, note it recommends taking legal advice and the issue of timeliness.
EG

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A mandate in any auto policy is to never admit guilt. Doing so can be detrimental to one’s cover. What goes on between the driver and their insurer is a different matter.

Budget Direct has a certain reputation in the ‘get what you pay for so long as it is obvious’ category. They also have a reputation for dropping customers who claim. As both are anecdotal I cannot comment either way.

Drivers have obligations under policies that are written out in the policy PDS. The PDS’s are not always detailed as who does what excepting the insured responsibilities to report the at-fault drivers details, make police reports, take photos, and so on as is reasonable and possible at the time. That is one reason dash cams are becoming popular.

Sometimes it is necessary to make a direct claim against the other drivers insurance. Expect in your case it would be denied so you would have to seek legal advice on how to proceed. If you were ‘t-boned’ and all of the damage is to the side of your vehicle photos should be useful to establish which vehicle was at-fault as a matter of physics but that is not always sufficient. Consider roudabout rules where a vehicle could have been in the roundabout having right of way and one enters just in front of them and gets t-boned. The vehicle in the roundabout could not have reasonably stopped so was ‘under control’ and had right of way, so the vehicle that was hit was at-fault in the scenario. The message is it could get contentious depending on the individual claims from each driver, and beyond personal honesty issues.

I searched ‘[insurance company] third party pds’ to see if they address who chases an insurer and those I read only require their insured to provide details of the other driver and provide ‘all assistance requested’ however worded. The insurance companies are supposed to settle it among themselves and according to their policies.

Never accept ‘told me’ unless it is clearly written in the PDS or you obtain that in writing/email. What is said or not said is difficult to establish in a court of law to make the point. Trying to get that ‘recorded for training purposes’ tape can be challenging :wink:

Sometimes one has to make a claim against the at-fault driver, be able to establish they were at-fault with photos/cam videos, their timely police report, witnesses, and so on showing that driver was at fault and deal with that company not their own. It can necessitate solicitors getting involved on your behalf and not assured one will prevail.

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The Youi website on third party insurance is here…

The PDS is also is linked from this page. For third party insurance, after a quick look, can’t find anything that says they will help you to resolve a claim against another insured driver. Their third party insurance website states:

Up to $5,000 cover against uninsured drivers
Getting into an accident with an uninsured person can be a bit concerning. But we’ve got you sorted. If someone without insurance accidentally damages your car, was completely at fault and you provide the required details, we’ll cover you for up to $5,000 after excess. Limits apply.2

which might be what they are alluring to. Their cover in addition to damage to other property includes legal protection, temporary replacement and counselling.

Third party property damage for cars is about insuring damage one may cause other property or car not owned by the insured.

It isn’t about providing cover for the repair to the car insured for third party. This is where the verbal information by Your seems to be confusing. Their third party insurance isn’t about repairing your own car, but they suggest they will help you get a repair through another driver’s insurance if they are at fault. It doesn’t quite make sense to me.

If You do offer such service which appears to be important to you, make sure you get it in writing to what the service is, its inclusions and limitations. This may be useful should they backtrack in the future.

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I would take Youi’s claim with a grain of salt. $5000 uninsured driver cover is pretty common across insurers. However, if it’s not in the PDS I’ve never heard of an insurer pursuing another on a third party only policy. (I used to work for an insurer).

It is well documented that Youi puts a lot of pressure on their sales staff. And these sales staff aren’t the same people who handle claims, so they likely don’t understand exactly when claims will step in.

What I would recommend is to follow the complaints process with the at fault party’s insurance, just as you would if you were complaining against your own insurer. Contact them and clearly outline why they are responsible for your costs, with evidence. If you are unsatisfied with their reply, lodge a complaint through their complaints process. If you are unhappy with the resolution through their complaints process, complain to the Australian Financial Complaints Authority (ACFA). Alternatively, you may engage a lawyer to assist in writing a letter to the at fault party, and leave them to deal with their insurance.

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A decade back a family member experienced an unexpected twist. The at-fault driver had a hire car and insurance via the small local hire car company. The driver would not cooperate with the hire car company insurer so per that policy the insurer had no obligation to ‘insure’ with full lioability on the at-fault driver, eg the person that hired the car.

Since there was insurance, regardless that driver was uncooperative so it was voided, it was deemed the at-fault driver was not an uninsured driver so no $5,000 applied. The remedy would have been suing the at-fault driver one on one realising they were dishonest and seemingly worldly in escaping liability. It would have been expensive for what was a $1,500 ding (door and rear wing damage) on a $3,000 value vehicle. The cost of repair was written off as a life experience.

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RACQ policy for 3rd party property has similar wording, i.e., the other driver was uninsured “Up to $5,000 for loss or damage to your car in an incident where the third party driver at fault is uninsured”.

RACV again similar " Up to $5,000 in limited cover For damage to your vehicle if you’re not at fault in the collision, the other driver is uninsured and you can provide their details"

RAC (WA) again is almost the same but in blurb there is no limit given " Uninsured motorist If you are involved in an accident caused by an uninsured motorist, we’ll cover the damage to your car plus we’ll tow your car to a safe location."

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Thank you everyone for your thoughts and suggestions.

Youi pointed me to Section 7 on Page 14 of their PDS about $5000 if an uninsured third party is at fault for hitting my car.

For insured third party, they referred me to another section of their PDS which I lost now and will have to call them again to ask for it. There was confusion about this where some of them knew about this section and some didn’t (after consulting their supervisors) so I’m not sure about it yet and will chase them.

In other news - last Friday the insurer of the third party who hit my car over two months ago told me (on our 7th conversation) that they will pay for fixing my car. I also got them to email me saying the same so there is still hope it will actually happen.

Right now my plan is that if Youi show me again the right text in their PDS which supports their claim that they will help me when I have third party insurance with them then I’ll probably go with them and save myself almost $1000 on the policy, otherwise I’ll go for a comprehensive insurance with someone else.

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Some years ago our car was insured for TPPD only with NRMA Insurance.
Another car ran into us and clearly they were the party at fault, so, enter the third party property damage claim…

We launched the claim and about a week later contacted NRMA insurance to find out how the claim was progressing.
We were told “the other driver has not paid his excess so we cannot process your claim until they pay their excess”.

Another week later we called NRMA again to ask about the progress of our claim, and we were given the same story - the other driver had not paid his excess.
When I asked “what can I do about this” I was told that I would have to invoke the Sheriff to serve the other driver with a notice to pay their excess.

At this point I began making careful notes about every phone call to the NRMA, whom I spoke with, and what I was told, in case everything went pear :pear: shaped.

The sheriff was invoked to serve the papers on the other driver and we waited and waited and waited.

A few more weeks passed and I made enquiries as to the progress, and was told that the Sheriff had been unable to locate the other driver, and that there was nothing that could be done about this.

Hmmm. What’s the use of a sheriff who can’t locate a driver.

So, I took matters into my own hands and was able to track down (surprisingly easily) the name and address of the other driver so I posted them a letter asking them to explain why they had not paid their excess.

A couple of days later the other driver phoned me and told me that he had indeed paid his excess - the day after the accident in fact - and he gave me the receipt number for payment of his excess.

Armed with this information, I rang NRMA insurance again and quoted the receipt number and payment date of the excess - and lo and behold, all of a sudden the proof of payment receipt suddenly appeared in the file and NRMA ran out of excuses to avoid paying our claim.

From start to finish the whole process took about 10 weeks before repairs to our car were started.

The advice I have for anyone in a similar situation is this:
Keep a complete written record of your communications with the insurance company, including date and time of the call, who you spoke to, their position in the company, a callback number if they will give it to you and what they told you.

BB

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I have read the linked pdf of the PDS and I can find nothing in the PDS that infers that they will assist you. I would assume any benefit to you would only be from having comprehensive insurance, a much more expensive option.

A Civil and Administrative Tribunal is probably the best recourse for recovery of costs. Getting some legal advice first may help decide actions that follow.

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Yep. I’ve been doing this since the first call. I also keep track of the date and time they answered, and the name of the person I talked to.

I suspect that being able to bring up such details when I talk to the next person shifts a bit their attitude that I remember what they told me so they can’t keep bouncing me around for too long.

I also, with my Chutzpah, request the recordings of every phone call I have with them (I got the recordings of the first five calls so far).

Another trick I learned - on my Android 13 phone, the phone will offer to “wait for you” while they hang me to dry with their dreadful music for an hour before they pick up the phone (even when they called me they did that after I answered!). The trick is to be ready to answer immediately when they finally answer.

Great tip about using the Sherrif if it comes to having to sue the other party directly, though right now it seems like their insurer relented.

As for getting legal advice - I tried to find a lawyer who deals with this sort of stuff through the Law Society (just in case it came to that when it seemed like I’ll need it) and it was a crap experience - the lawyers I contacted through their referral never returned my calls.

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There are free Consumer Law services and we have a few listed on this site. See the following:

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Depending on the state you live in, and the value of damage bill for repairing your vehicle, the Financial Services Ombudsman may be worth speaking to. My son, a student at the time, bought a near-new second hand motorcycle a few years ago. Riding it home after picking it up (it wasn’t his first bike), he was stopped at an intersection giving way to traffic when hit from behind.

The driver was apologetic, but the insurance company was ruthless, and sought to avoid any compensation for the crash using a variety of tricks, few of which they had the right to demand. The ombudsman provided excellent advice. I also advised him to document all interactions with the insurance company, and send written notes advising their loss adjuster of the fact that despite his demands, so that these could be presented to the VCAT equivalent if push came to shove - e.g. they wanted to quote and provide repairs; they “need” to inspect the damage and decide what they’ll “accept”…etc.

The damage was relatively superficial, but quite obvious to the eye. Parts needed to be replaced, and the repair estimate was just shy of $3,000. In the end, they sent a cheque when it was obvious they would have to defend their behaviour in court.

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I’d be very cautious if Youi implied they would assist you IF you become a customer for an event that occurred before you were their customer. Are you sure they are talking about the incident while you are insured with someone else, or misinterpreting that IF you HAD been with them at the time of the accident they would have helped you? I am a long-time Youi Customer and I’ve had a couple of house damage claims over the years, each time I couldn’t fault them with their conduct and settling of the claims, but I’ve been around long enough to know that a future claim may not be so good. I’m always cynical and wary of any insurance matters. I’d be astounded if they (or any insurer) would assist you in resolving a claim under another company’s policy cover period. However, if that turns out to be the case, please let us know.

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Ah no - I didn’t expect for one moment that they’ll take responsibility for something which happened before I took their cover. I was giving this as an example of “if something like this happened while I was covered by you…”

And thanks for giving me your positive experience with them so far. It’s very helpful to know.

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