Non-honouring of warranty by Hewlett-Packard and Harvey Norman

Ask the Experts
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Can anyone tell me what I can do when a business doesn’t hold to the legal warranty? In December a key fell out of my Hewlett-Packard laptop / tablet that I had bought from Harvey Norman in August. Harvey Norman agrees that the machine is in excellent condition, but Hewlett-Packard says I have to pay $200 because it is “physical damage”. Harvey Norman says that they escalated the case with HP but HP still refuses to repair it for free. I said I would just like my money back instead but there seems to be some problem with that too.

I thought that there was at least a one-year warranty.

What can I do? I am in Canberra.

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Do you know what is the basis for this assessment?

It is worth noting that if it is correct, it is misuse and sits outside the warranty.

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HP has had problems in the past with their keys on a variety of laptops. The domestic versions of HP products I am generally loathe to recommend.

As you noted it would be important to know how the assessment was undertaken, or is it just a HN franchise being “difficult” in their Customer Service role??

Knowing the model of the laptop might be useful in undertaking a search to see if similar problems have been apparent with other users. If there are lots of complaints, it may be a manufacturing fault.

If definitely misuse then neither warranty nor ACL rights will apply to having the damage rectified for free.

If the fault is a known problem and it can be shown not to be misuse, then @ahdb should have the ability to exercise their ACL rights in getting the item refunded, repaired, or replaced.

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I was just told that HP keeps repeating to Harvey Norman that it’s “physical damage”. I looked after it and used it in a normal way. Harvey Norman tells me that it looks in perfect condition other than the lost key.

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It’s an HP Spectre X360.

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An item must be “fit for purpose” as part of what are your ACL rights. Harvey Norman franchises have been known to have poor customer service in areas and this may just be that issue.

Have you received written feedback or is it just been verbal? If only verbal ask them, the Store, to put it in writing. You should also put a complaint in writing to the Store about what you believe is the issue and what result you would like.

There are complaint form letters/emails that will help you put your request together. The ACCC and CHOICE provide these for free.

ACCC written complaint tool

CHOICE’s checklist which also includes links to their form letters

There are many references online to the X360 keyboard issues.

Here are two results about keys falling off, there are more

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As it appears that the key broke through normal use of the laptop, it will be considered a fault which is the responsibility of HP/Harvey Norman to resolve. I agree with @graholl, that

As a key should easily be able to be replaced, it would be considered a minor fault with the laptop. This, it should be repaired under warranty, since it is still in warranty.

I would be giving Harvey Norman a formal letter of complaint which outlines what you have said above…the laptop has been only been used as for which is has been intented, it hasn’t been abused or misused. State that if they don’t repair the key under warranty, you will be taking the matter further by taking it to the office of fair trading.

Hopefully the formal letter of complaint is enough to get them to fix the key under warranty.

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Thank you @grahroll . I do have written replies from HN, quoting HP. I will write formally to HN as you and ACCC suggest. Interesting that my keyboard issue is not unique!

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Thank you @phb ! I’m told that they have to replace the whole keyboard (huh?), hence the $200 price.

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They will have to replace the whole keyboard, especially on modern laptops. You should not be paying for this though especially if it’s a common problem. They should be covering it under warranty.

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BTW, I’ve now read HP’s invoice more carefully. They want $365, not $200 as I wrote before. Haha!

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On a laptop the keys individually are not usually individually replaceable, whether they be the “chiclet” type or others. The keyboards come as a pre assembled unit with a ribbon cable that attaches the keyboard unit to the mainboard.

For a new Original Equipment Manufactured (OEM) HP keyboard and the labour necessary to remove the old and fit the new keyboard, the price is easily several hundred dollars as you have been quoted for. Some to fit are more difficult than others. If you eventually need to replace the keyboard at your cost, the price you are quoted seems reasonable to me.

Aftermarket keyboards (non OEM) can be obtained fairly cheaply, labour cost though is still costed around 1 to 2 hours at least, so I would be expecting even with a cheap aftermarket one (not my usual recommended replacement type) that the cost would be $150 - $200 for a business to fit in usual circumstances and done competently.

However, you are not yet at a point where you will be required to meet the cost at your own expense. Use your ACL rights and going formal and taking the necessary steps, to see if you win your case. In future from my experiences with HP domestic IT equipment, it would be a very long day before I would purchase one. If it was their IT built for commercial/business/corporate use I would not be as hesitant to buy, though what you normally see in HN or other retailers are not typically the made for business units.

Keyboards even in other brands are some of the most common of ‘early use’ failures, Not a lot are usually expected but regardless of brand they do happen, I just have had more when HP than others, plus other things that can go wrong.

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Thank you, @grahroll : useful information!

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Yes, that’s how pretty much all modern laptops are. The keyboard in one Dell laptop I had began to wear out when it was several years old. I could get a replacement keyboard for it cheaply, but having read the service manual instructions for installing the replacement part, I decided I couldn’t face the hours of fiddly work it’d involve.

One would literally have had to remove every single removable component in the body of the device to get at the keyboard, and then re-assemble the device completely before being able to test whether the new keyboard was working.

My impression, looking at other laptops including the newer Dynabook I now have, is that all new laptops are designed like that. :worried:

All in the name of making them increasingly compact – and increasingly un-serviceable.

Thinner is not better! :angry:

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The following guide from the ACCC might be useful if further steps are required to resolve your problem @ahdb
(Please also see @grahroll post above re written complaint tool link.)
Good luck :slightly_smiling_face:

Resolving problems with businesses
Step 1:
Approach the business with your concerns. As soon as possible, contact the business to explain the problem and the outcome you want such as a refund or replacement. Make a note of all phone calls and visits with the business, including the name of the person you spoke to.

If this doesn’t resolve your problem, move on to step 2.
Step 2:
Make a written complaint
Write to the business – address your letter or email to the manager or the business’ head office.
Set out what you are complaining about and the outcome you want (as in step 1). Ask for a response from the business within two weeks.

Step 3:
Consider what other action you can take
If steps 1 and 2 don’t resolve your complaint, you still have several options.

Tell your state or territory office of fair trading (sometimes called ‘consumer affairs’). They may be able to help you reach an agreement with a business. All states have their own consumer laws which are similar to the Act, and a fair trading office may be able to use these to take action against a business.

Take legal action in a court or tribunal

Each state and territory has courts or tribunals that handle cases involving small amounts of money (usually up to $10 000, although the figure varies in each jurisdiction). You don’t need a lawyer to represent you, which can make it a more economical way of resolving disputes, although you will be charged a fee.

You should still consider getting independent legal advice (for example from a community legal centre or Legal Aid) about whether this option suits your circumstances.

• Action through a higher court

For disputes involving larger sums of money, you may need to go to a higher court. Legal representation for these kinds of cases is usually necessary, which can make this option expensive. There is no guarantee that you will be successful so consider other options first. If you are thinking of pursuing a matter through a court you should seek independent legal advice (for example from a community legal centre or Legal Aid) about whether this option suits your circumstances.
A court or tribunal can award:
• compensation (also called ‘damages’) for any additional losses resulting from the breach of the statutory warranty or condition
• compensation for the cost of having the service re-supplied, and the repair and replacement of related goods.

The ACCC has a range of publications available to help consumers and businesses understand their rights and obligations.

For consumers:
Your consumer rights: refunds
Your consumer rights: warranties
Your consumer rights: warranties for services
Know how to complain: stand up for your consumer rights

You can order these and other publications
through the ACCC Infocentre on 1300 302 502 or
download them at no cost from the ACCC website
at www.accc.gov.au.

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Interesting - thank you @isopeda .

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Thank you, @Gaby . I have now emailed a written complaint following the ACCC’s recommendations, and attaching all emails and receipts. I am on my way to the PO to also post a hard copy - I don’t have time to go out to Fyshwick to hand deliver it. Now I just have to wait.

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While many newer laptop keyboards can’t have individual keys replaced, the

is one that does. Individual key replacement kits are available for a relatively modest cost. This is one example:

HP may choose to replace the whole keyboard under warranty, but it is also possible for them to replace individual keys

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This is very interesting, @phb - thank you. I’ve experimented with their website, but when I came to the order page, they did not list Australia as a destination. I would have to send it to a friend in another country (eg UK) and then get the friend to post it to me. I would rather that HN and HP honoured the warranty and repaired it themselves!

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I would be pushing the warranty path. HP keypads could have short life, and replacing a key every time it pops out could become an expensive exercise. It is also inconvenient. The keypad is faulty as it failed within the warranty period with normal use.

Under warranty HP may replace the whole keypad, thus in effect, making the keypad new again. Should last a lot longer before a problem emerges.

It was an example, not a recommendation. Key replacement kits are available from other sources if a search is done.

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