I am having a similar issue to another post from 3 years ago (supply and install dble glazed windows and sliding doors - building renovation work). I am very nervous about doing this. I’ve paid half and I am now being pressured to pay the remainder before the install in September. Apparently it’s ok to do and they’re within their rights. But I am being pressured to pay the remainder 50% now for an install in September. The second invoice has only just landed in my email after waiting 4 months for the windows to arrive with an install time of September. They seem ok and I called Fair trading NSW and they’re comfortable that the business is ok. Can I mention them here?
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I share your concern. A business that is desperate to be paid upfront can be a sign of cash flow problems which can be precursor to insolvency and bankruptcy. If they go bankrupt you will be an unsecured creditor, that is at the end of the queue to get paid.
Do you have a contract? What does it say about this? If 100% payment in advance is in the contract you have little choice. If not why did they not make this plain beforehand, what has changed?
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Paying the balance in full for supply once the goods are available or ready is not uncommon. Paying in advance for the install portion, is difficult to comment on. It’s one of legal opinion on the agreement made between the supplier and purchaser. Is there a seperate section in the quote for delivery and installation?
If as you say the double glazed windows and doors are now physically with the supplier, not paying may cause the supplier to with-hold delivery and installation.
For purchases of considerable value/risk note:
There are legal remedies which may address your concerns, assuming one is prepared to pay for the professional legal support required. This is not a recommendation to do so. For a $5000 order in my personal circumstance I’d likely not bother. For a $50,000 order I would consider the option carefully. It’s possible to use a legal instrument to transfer ownership of the windows doors etc from the supplier to the purchaser on their receipt of your next payment. The goods can remain at the supplier’s premises until able to be installed. It’s important the change of ownership is recorded by the supplier and the goods are suitably stored, protected and insured against damage or loss. In the instance of failure of the business the receivers have no claim over what has become the purchases property, albeit stored at the supplier. The difficulty typical of similar to the above instance is transfer of ownership of the ordered goods often does not occur until installed and all outstanding amounts paid in full. Holding half the payment provides some leverage to vary the contract/agreement providing one has the necessary legal advice and support.
Mentioning the company may alert others who can share their experiences. It may however complicate the relationship with the supplier affecting progress. Have you discussed your concerns with the supplier, and how did they react if you have? Approaching the manager, would be preferable to raising with the sales team or accounts payable staff.
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Do you have space on site to store the materials until such time as the install happens?
If you will have paid the entire materials cost then I would be wanting that
a) title has passed to me, and
b) I have physical possession of the materials.
That way if it all goes pear-shaped, I have some protection.
There’s no way I would pay 100% of the cost before the install is actually done.
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Also, in NSW, for building works over a certain value there should be insurance. So I would be asking: does that apply in the OP’s state/territory? and if so, is the job over the threshold?
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Have a look at the contract you signed with them upon ordering the glass windows and doors. It is likely that you agreed to the payment schedule and refusing to pay until receipt of the goods may mean you are in breach of the contract and could lose the 50% deposit already paid.
Some building suppliers require 100% payment before they commence a job as often they work on tight profit margins and need to ensure that they have money to cover payment of labour, materials, subcontractors etc before any work commences. Such approach has become common as it protects suppliers against becoming insolvent in the event that they accept all the risk and a customer/builder with a large order goes belly up.
This is possibly all you need to give you the confidence to proceed.
I was not aware Fair Trading was atop upcoming insolvency. ASIC is not even there. Fair Trading might have zero complaints and accepts those t&c are not out of the ordinary. But ‘all you need?’ I don’t agree although your previous comments covered many of the possibilities.
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But from the point of view of the supplier, they are bearing all the risk until you pay. The windows will have been custom built and if you don’t take them, the manufacturer can’t sell them to anyone else. The’ll likely go to landfill. Just a few customers who “change their mind” could send a manufacturer into running at a loss in the month the defaults occurred.
The supplier usually has a contract that allows them to sue a customer who doesn’t pay. So long as the customer has assets the courts can usually extract the dollars in play. OTOH a customer is not usually in a position to successfully sue and recoup money from a supplier that has gone into administration. Deuce?
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I think I would be saying show me the receipt for the ordered products and have them delivered to my posession, and then I would pay for that only. The rest of the money for labour to install and complete comes on final completion.
Seems you are being asked to pay the total amount before anything is actually done. Any reputable trade business would not be doing that.
There are those who argue a business is better managing its costs of financing by having the money in the bank ahead of completion. Hence a lower cost to the customer?
There are also businesses which rely on new sales to cover costs previously incurred. Call it sloppy accounting or overly optimistic management. Expectations are not always met. There are alarming statistics concerning small business failures in Australia. Even long established businesses can fail in changing markets. Some are more able to adapt than others.
An aside on the market.
Challenging?
Is the double glazing industry - retrofitting the typical Aussie glass walled palace a work in progress? All the more difficult considering the substantial variation in window pane sizes over time, and architecture. Handcrafted double glazing might be a suitable adjective to add to the real estate agents future home selling features.
Local manufacture?
Double glazing products are not rocket science. However - the greater expertise and product experience is all outside of Australia. CSR sold its Australian float glass based business (Viridian and Oceania Glass) at a book loss to an equity manager in 2019. Future uncertain, it sets a bench mark imported product can price against, being Australia’s only manufacturer of CFG.
An industry in transition?
Single pane glass can be simply cut to size by any competent glazier. Double glazing supplies from a third party panes manufactured to size, with or without framing. The core skills in glazing and the associated income stream are reduced to the skill needed to measure a hole or read the sales order dimensions. The only other skill required handling the extra weight of the product without personnel injury or product damage?
