Map updates on built-in GPS - problems and costs

TomTom provides 4 updates a year in Australia.

Great when one buys a model with free lifetime map updates such as ours.

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This still has a minimum lag of 3 months. I suspect it could be in the order of 6 months to allow dataset generation, beta testing and then release.

Online mapping datasets usually are current as soon as the street/mapping data is added.

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I get weekly updates for the TomTom (most weeks) which they label as speed camera updates, but which appear to include some geodata. Formal updates are four times a year - which is four times better than the Subaru “updates” for which I paid nearly $100 per year.

When a new highway was opened near us, the “free” Apple Maps app (which uses TomTom geodata (I think) was updated within a week. Clearly, the geodata are readily available - the car manufacturers simply don’t provide it.

It seems that with GPS systems, the quality of backup is inversely proportional to the price we pay! :frowning:

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It used to use a mishmash of TomTom and OpenStreetMaps, but due to problems integrating the datasets and also poor resulting accuracy, Apple now uses and maintains its own datasets.

As outlined above, online mapping systems are very easy to update
using a SD card manually inserted by the customer/service technician at a time of service means the mapping can be somewhat out of date before it is even installed.

We chose to use an app based on OpenStreetMap (using the free Mapfactor App that has free monthly updates), rather than relying on inbuilt car GPS. In another post I outlined our experiences with Google Maps, in car GPS (Hyundai) and also Mapfactor app. In more remote areas of Chile, Mapfactor was by far more accurate and detailed, showing many tracks and minor roads not included on the other platforms.

From our observations, the quality seems to be reflective of the currency of the data version used and also the quality of the underlying dataset. As they say, rubbish in = rubbish out.

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No revenue first, nor product differentiation second. But you know that and I know you know that and you probably know that I know that you know that, but you posed the question :wink:

OTOH Android Auto and Apple Carplay enable anything that works on a mobile to work on the vehicle by essentially casting the mobile and its apps on the vehicle’s LCD screen. However the built-in does have some nice qualities, all subjective to each user, that makes them nicer than those on the phone. A bit like the difference in polish between Windows and linux.

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Unfortunately car manufacturer GPS has always been overpriced and poorly serviced. The best option is to use Google Maps on an iPhone on the car’s screen using Apple CarPlay (or the android equivalent) as it’s free and rapidly updated.

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Hi Shane. I took this issue to the ACCC when Kia vehemently refused to update maps free of charge as promised at point of sale. It was a very simple process which resulted in Kia doing an about face and updating for free.

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Because I do not want Mr Google knowing more about me than he already does, I refuse to use google maps so he can know where I go when I am in my car. I won’t even use Waze since google bought it. I have a number of apps on my phone but the one I use most is Navmii, which uses open street maps. I paid for removal of ads and I pay for traffic/speed cameras every year. The maps themselves remain free. I also have Sygic AU/NZ which I bought at the beginning of navigation on the iPhone, it went “off” for a long time, but I think the complaints from those of us who paid up have finally reached the ears of the beancounters, because we werent going to pay again, and we now have a very similar app, which included overspeed, cameras, and school warnings.

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Renault Rlink2 (GPS, et al) requires allowing blanket data from the vehicle to the Rlink2 apps. Every time the vehicle is started it shows a menu to accept or change the privacy statement. It defaults to the previous setting and will go away in a short time once under motion. Multiple driver profiles can be saved, all different. I doubt if anyone thought through if I accepted and my partner declined sharing information, and the data was used adversely by someone, somewhere, not that it would. :wink:

In return for open kimono the support part of Rlink2 is fairly slick even in Australia where much of it is handicapped (it is Very EU centric).

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I just use WAZE on my iPhone. Free, and it hasn’t failed me yet. now owned by Google, I gather, but I find it better than Google Maps. Provides constant updates about accidents, hazards, traffic tailbacks, breathalyser busses etc. Quite high battery drain, but plugged into a USB outlet or other power supply, no problems. Maps appear to be constantly updated. Shows speed limit and warns if you exceed it. I can understand the irritation of buying an expensive new vehicle and discovering the major faults outlined above. I know WAZE is not built in, but it sure works for me. Which reminds me, I test drove a late lamented Holden Commodore ZB the other day. It has a large screen, and when I asked about the GPS, I was told you connect your phone under the centre console armrest, and use whatever system you like and it comes up on the main screen on the dashboard — or that’s what I understood. Would seem to solve a lot of problems.

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Hi Ernie. The answer is usually “No”. Most vehicles have special codes built into the SD card that identify the vehicle (often by VIN). In general you’re stuck with 2 options; pay Mercedes or do as others suggest and use a portable GPS with Lifetime maps. For $300 you can likely get a good GPS and holder to suit and no more update costs. or check this out https://mbnavupdate.com/ It’s a USA site but they may be able to point you to an Oz equivalent. Good luck

When I bought my last car I looked at those choices - no it wasn’t a Mercedes but the principle applies.

The supplied mapping and GPS was part of a package that had a built in screen and as well as integration with other audiovisual gear had some other fripperies (that were not important to me) included. The screen was nice and in a good position but the package was over $1000 (about $1300 IIRC) and lifetime map updates were not included.

The alternative was a Tomtom with lifetime updates for a touch over $300. The screen is smaller and fitting it in a good position was a bit of a problem as the good positions were all taken and the dashboard is textured and doesn’t hold the suction cup well. It was intended to be on the windscreen but that was a bit far away. But I soon realised that most of the time you don’t look at the screen, especially in traffic I tend to listen to the spoken instructions instead. If we need to check details or reset it either the copilot does it or I pull over. I think fiddling with a touch screen is dangerous when driving and may be illegal.

I have not had any problem with getting updates from Tomtom. The times when it has sent me on a wild goose chase are few.

It seems popular to blame the “GPS” when errors happen. There are three parts to this AFAIK; the actual GPS (ie the system doesn’t know where you are), the maps do not represent reality or the pathfinding algorithm makes a stupid choice.

The first you would know about in any case as the device will complain it can’t get a fix. Most complaints appear to be about inaccurate maps but I believe the third is a major factor. For example; sending you all the way around a roundabout to turn left, sending you east down a street and a minute later changing its mind and telling you to do a u-turn and go west, ordering you into the left lane to turn right (which can be correct at some complex intersections with over passes) and then at the last minute telling you to cross three lanes of traffic and turn from the right hand lane at ground level. I don’t know how you test for that kind of error.

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A trivial addition to this discussion, I’ll grant you, but I just had an email from TomTom.

They claim over 49 million changes to their maps - daily. I imagine the Apple maps people could make a similar claim.

Admittedly, this is global, but it shows that updates can be done regularly - unless you’re a car manufacturer.

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I believe what they are stating is they ingest 49 million changes per day. They only release new maps every quarter, still typically 4X what the manufacturers do. Interestingly the built-in GPS are often Tomtom Carminat systems and although customised for the manufacturer the maps should not be hard or expensive - if they were not managed from above like auto parts. No reason they could not add say $250 to the price of the vehicle and throw in ‘lifetime’ map updates (such as lifetime gets defined these days) except their P/L equations and what they actually want to do as being in their spheres of core business versus external add-ons they are all but forced to embrace in some manner.

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I think if I was buying a car with GPS these days it would also have to do Apple Carplay or whatever the equivalent Android thing. I got notification from Sygic just a week ago to tell me it’s now Carplay compatible and that is a good thing. It also gets round the hideous update costs for the built in stuff.

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I too found Waze to have a very high battery drain even in background mode, and therefore while I haven’t uninstalled it I do not turn it on.
Much prefer a GPS system that is not dependent on mobile phone coverage which is why we have separate satnavs for our cars (a Garmin nuvi 310 that is over 15 years old, and a large screen Garmin dezl 3790T).

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Waze uses a network connection (to 3G, 4G or 5G) as well as location information. Add in processing of mapping data and the processing used is significant and why battery drain may be quick.

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I use offline maps on my phone, thus a 3G/4G connection isn’t required. There are many apps which can fulfil this need. I’ve thought about buying another dedicated GPS gadget (I’ve had 3 in the past) but I don’t do enough driving anymore, to warrant the expense.

Map updates are not frequent enough to need constant connection. Waze was always a community-driven app, thus would always cost more in terms of battery drain. Charge on the go is the only way to deal with that. Well, do it anyway, because GPS drains the battery anyway, just that Waze and others like it tend to do that faster. I stopped using Waze when Google bought it.

I bought some years ago a Tom Tom for around $500, With lifetime free updates, A couple of years later it said I have to pay for further updates, That was around the time, when by law they had to supply much longer updates, as they realy supported. I wrote to Tom Tom “by law you have to
”. Got no answer, no support! Never again!! Perhaps it would be helpfull to write some notes according to that in Testresults?

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You are not the only one to note the same.

Of some relevance:

Others might add some clarification of what the ACCC is advising consumers when it says.

ACCC Commissioner Sarah Court said, “We believe the statements about ‘lifetime’ services made by these GPS manufacturers were inconsistent with what consumers would understand ‘lifetime’ to mean.”

“Consumers would have rightly expected to receive those services for the lifetime of the device, without the manufacturer being able to unilaterally terminate the commitment,” Ms Court said.

“Businesses must not deceive or mislead consumers in advertising, whether through small print, or by using ill-defined, broad terms like ‘lifetime’, and they should take care to use terms that match the understanding of consumers.”

“We also encourage consumers to invoke their consumer rights if they believe they have been misled or are not getting what they paid for.”

One take is for so long as you are the original owner and the device is still functional, consumer rights still apply in respect of the entitlement to receive updates?

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