A local public golf course, council administered, now requires a hirer leaves their licence with the pro shop for the duration of the hire.
I have a problem with this for obvious reasons, the robot behind the counter provides no other options.
Your thoughts please.
Am I being a grumpy old bloke?
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Not quite sure why this would be a problem. Doesn’t seem obvious to me that a hirer should not be able to identify someone.
This is common for test driving a car, giving passports for some things when travelling overseas etc.
I always feel nervous about giving an identity document for anyone to hold as a form of security… I always do the right thing. I also appreciate that there are some that chose to do the wrong thing, and spoil it for everyone else. Hence requirements to use identity documents as a form of security/collateral.
If it is a requirement, it needs to be done. I can’t comment if the practice is lawful, but assume it is a widely used practice as outlined above.
Depending on the business they may be obligated to ensure the security of your personal information (details provided by your DL).
Protect your customers' information | business.gov.au
Smaller businesses are with some exemptions exempt from needing to comply. Whether consumers should expect more of the legislated requirements to cover (irrespective of the business type or size) the instance/example? I’d be grumpy because I’ve likely had one prior hack from collection of data from a CC. To note a scanned or copied DL can be used in many ways to assist fraud or crime. Aside from the pain of the holder loosing the same. In the first instance likely difficult to prove misuse. In the second a long legal action to deliver compensation, assuming the other party can be held liable and has the finds to pay. In handing over the DL without any written undertaking from the temporary holder one is likely to be held partly responsible for any subsequent loss. EG Written legally binding indemnity against direct or consequential loss arising from handing your DL over.
It would be useful to know if there are CHOICE views on whether current legislation provides consumers full protection, limited protection or very little. @BrendanMays
It may be one more item to add to the list for further consumer action.
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Just to clarify my post. For those who have avoided identify theft well done, you are indeed fortunate.
I am not one of those.
Licences, cards and so on, if in the wrong hands may help others steal the identities of individuals.
The results are not pleasant.
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I wouldn’t give any personal identification to anyone I didn’t trust. But, you have indicated that it is a
Being council, they will have access to many identity documents for ratepayers, so the risks should be very low.
If you have concerns and want to play at the course, maybe consider walking the course instead of hiring a golf cart.
That’s my dream. My playing partner has heart problems and is worried we may not be able to get back to the pro shop. So I get to share a cart I’d rather not use.
So why doesn’t your playing partner hand over the document if they need the cart?
I pay one week, ie walk to the pro shop a little distance away. He pays the next.
The point is
Should I leave a licence with people I don’t know?
Is there a risk of identity theft?
Is there a better way?
Should there be some degree of regulation?
Nothing to you with walking, heart health.
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The crux of your question is whether you as a customer can set the conditions for a business to operate. So long as the business is not breaking laws (and unfortunately even sometimes if they are) you cannot do more than complain to authorities that due to existing legislation, resources, and priorities are often disinterested beyond some arm waving, to be polite…
There is always some risk of identity theft in any transaction involving personal details. One has to weigh up the probability not just the possibility.
Many countries, Australia seemingly at the fore, tries to legislate to an Nth degree from DIY activities to having >512 pages of road rules in most states when <100 do it in many jurisdictions.
Have you ever given your credit card details to someone unknown to you by phone? It was and remains common when booking accommodation when not using a booking platform (that have their own security and financial risks). They will have your address, name, and card details. There are regular data breaches from web sites.
Thus my personal answer to your question is ‘no’. The ‘new requirement’ if the DL was restricted could be posting a bond. Would/could you post say a $500 cash or credit card bond for a golf buggy when they might rightly or wrongly claim damages and try to keep it? Another choice to consider. Also consider the process for hire cars.
I wonder whether you could leave your car keys/fob instead? You’re certainly not going from the course without it.
You could show your license to establish identity but not hand it over.
And someone could use the keys to take a peek inside a car to see what may be worth pinching?
Seems leaving the keys is far riskier than leaving a car license.
To note when hiring a car or opening a mobile or internet account one usually will have provided one’s DL which is copied (both sides) and credit card details sufficient for billing. For car hire a refundable security amount will be requested or held on the account. Telcos if post paid have pivoted to encouraging or only offering accounts with automatic debit for payment. The difference is in those examples the enterprises are very large, are captured by legislation WRT to privacy and security of consumer shared data. The T&C’s are (given the customer makes the effort) accessible.
When hiring a golf cart - the business may not be owned or operated by the course owner/operator. Councils often contract out services, whether a swimming pool or the garbage collection. If one has a concern or is relying on the council being the course owner - it would pay to check exactly who owns that business offering the carts.
Counterpoint argument: Your car? Your house? Some random keys/fob? A walk to your car to show they work?
Yes. Or make copies for use much later when the trail might be cold or confused over time.
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It would be interesting if they would accept other collateral.
I suspect the licence is used for more than just security. It demonstrates the age of a person and also that a person is capable and fit to drive. These may be requirement for insurance cover by the hirer, namely the hiring party is over X age and can drive a vehicle. Insurers wouldn’t want underage nor someone without experience of driving a vehicle., running around a course in a golf cart. Not meeting minimum requirements would not only a risk to the driver, but anyone on the course.
Holding a licence also insures any cart is returned to the place of hire and drivers may think twice of leaving a golf course area without a driver’s licence in their possession. Most states require driver’s licences to be in one’s possession when driving on public roads. It might stop some running home for lunch or excursions onto public roads.
I would also prefer giving over a driver’s licence to be held securely until my return, than allowing someone to photocopy, photograph or scan it as a record. These forms would make it easy to be ‘lost’ or eventually end up in the wrong hands.
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A minor twist in how it might play out.
These days many now have two copies. The physical card and a digital version on the mobile. The second is recognised as a valid authorisation. IE no need to carry the physical card version. (Digital Driver License accepted by police nationwide - TrustGrid)
Many will see the digital licence secured within ones mobile as less of a risk than carrying the physical card version everywhere. Especially if the more security conscious have put in place the better options of mobile phone protection and remote tracking/locking etc. A different discussion when it comes to use for ID verification.
PS
It may come to pass that the golf buggy hire shop will one day need to find a different solution.
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Surely it could be something as simple as a membership card. To hire a buggy, show your membership card. Not a member? Then get a membership card which records your name, address, phone number, verified by some photo ID like car license number.
Seems to work for public libraries which lend out. And video stores, if any still exist.
Looking at golf courses websites fees and conditions, a deposit in the form of a credit card number is required by most. Although any personal data is very vulnerable, a credit card can be quickly checked on the bank statement to ascertain any misuse. A Driver’s Licence is more difficult to track if there’s been any fraudulent use/misuse.
We have the right to refuse to hand over our DL unless legally requested to do so by Law enforcement officers, Bank & Financial institutions, Licensed liquor store….the list is very limited.
It’s understandable that a golf course would ask to see a DL before hiring a motorised golf cart from them, it is one of the conditions that the hirer is over 18 and holds a current DL. But, as far as I can tell, unless I’m mistaken, no one has the right to keep a driver’s licence as a ‘security deposit’ for any length of time while we are away.
I would ask to speak to someone who isn’t a Robo to explain the unusual request, and in case of no other options, I would let them know that I’d be reporting them to the appropriate authorities, and to consumer associations.
Then I would walk out and find another golf course to give my business to.
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I’m not good at social?? media but if I could give likes I would, thank you all.
I’m just waiting for the day when the older pro is behind the counter and I will be asking him.
I would like Choice to look at the whole question of handing over ID as security and the possibility of alternatives.
Your replies and support suggests there may be a need.
I thank you again.
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Please note that the Choice Community is a great place to share concerns. It is supported by Choice, however joining the Community is not the same as being a Member of Choice. The majority of the contributors are everyday consumers like yourself. The staff and specialists with Choice the consumer organisation may follow some of the discussion/topics.
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The following is not intended as legal advice. It may assist understanding of the issue faced to consider what the ACCC defines as an unfair contract term/condition. Further on the options the average consumer may have to resolve any issue or complaint. To note it is likely up to a court to decide in the circumstances from the OP. Have you considered approaching your local council and councillor/s? They may not be aware of the practice at the course and see need to resolve to your satisfaction without any further delay.
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