Agree.
Shame on them.there should be several staffed check outs available.
1 Like
They have treated customers like thieves for decades. I was shocked by their bag searches 25 years ago and have avoided the place ever since. What’s really frustrating is that if one were to refuse to comply, which you have every right to do, you’d be kept waiting for police or whoever to turn up and settle the dispute.
I’m surprised they had no signage, I thought that was mandatory, something along the lines of “entry to this store blah blah blah”
I have zero problem in showing a receipt for all items.
I will NOT be lining up or waiting, nor would i cooperate in any way as the poster did with security.
It is about time people stop cooperating with outrageous demands.
If you want me to line up AFTER I have spent my money because you have insufficient staff NO!
A bout a year ago I had this experience. I was asked to stop, which I did.
I showed the staff member my receipt who told me in future line up.
To which I replied I am never going to do that, you require me to show a receipt which i am happy to do, you cannot require me to line up to leave because you don’t have enough staff. She muttered and wandered off.
This isn’t ok, nor reasonable. It is my time, they are not paying me nor are they offering me anything I want.
3 Likes
Our local JB-Hifi does have a security guard at the door and often will stamp our receipt or scribble on it as we exit. He (it’s always a he) never checks the items against the receipt. That’s so we can’t go back in and grab the same stuff and show the same receipt.
I guess you wouldn’t apply that logic when lining up to pay at a staffed cash register. 
The one thing that I would say is that there is no point going off at the staff (I’m not saying that you did that). They don’t make any of the relevant decisions. You have to contact the company somehow to give feedback.
For the same reason, I prefer not simply to withdraw my custom i.e. not just go quietly. I prefer to make sure that senior management within the company knows why I am boycotting them. One customer won’t make a difference but a stampede of customers out the door might get their attention.
2 Likes
Actually I apply exactly that logic at a checkout.
If there is an unacceptable delay due to a under staffing I will leave the goods and walk out. With this KMart move that is not an option.
I have done this in the past at Supermarkets when checkouts are not open and have left full trolleys.
I do not have the time to complain about this sort of stupidity, I take my business elsewhere. I would suggest it is one of the reasons why so many now will only shop online.
1 Like
Greetings (as the “original poster” ) I have since gained some information on this topic.
I stated in a previous post I worked as a prison Officer for a time. I have since retired from that job, however, I was told of a colleague from the prison who now works as Supervisor (loss prevention) of a major chain. I messaged him and we caught up for a coffee and a chat.
Although the person does not work for K-Mart the organisation is a major shopping centre chain. I will outline briefly here what we spoke of.
The signage is now available at the store, as my colleague knows the store security supervisor at my local store ( where this happened). The POSTER is an A4 size, and quite frankly looks like a poorly photocopied notice. However, it does fulfil the requirement.
I could explain the whole discussion however, the principles may in fact thwart the "stock loss/ theft prevention efforts:! So I keep it to the points raised here!
- The notice doesn’t state anything about being detained! - However the principles of discussion with my colleague - outline some processes to assist in this issue.
- There is an outline of some state variations of the principles. Each state’s legislation varies in the principles in the different states of Australia. For this discussion (we are speaking of the Victorian legislation).
The ANSWER lies within the phrasing of the statement! - A store owner and/or retailer has the right to impose any “terms of entry” etc to their store. The word “detain” may be misunderstood as ARREST. There is a defined difference between these terms :
-
- Detain means -you might be asked to move elsewhere in the store to reduce your chance of “decamping - whilst police attend”.
- 2 Detain does not mean that you have committed a crime. ( Although there are certain other circumstances that store security or staff may choose to do so).
Arrest - is defined in Victorian Legislation -: The touching of a person’s body and actions to prevent them from leaving, absconding, or decamping from a crime. (The word “crime” outlines another part of the legislation).
-In context here. You as a shopper/patron who has purchased and can present a valid receipt have fulfilled all tasks under consumer law.
-The store’s SOP (standard operating procedure) may require you to present a receipt before exiting a store.
- IN THE INSTANCE of stock theft/Loss prevention - the stores have implemented CCTV along with recent innovations such as recognition (facial in some cases) or security CCTV staff monitoring the store entry and exit points via a wide range of technology!
-The process of introducing this “ADDED” imposition is so that monitoring staff can see and therefore learn those leaving the store with valid “paid for goods”. ( It makes it easier on a monitor)
Coupled with “two radio technology”, staff also can be alerted to incidences in the store.
The defined difference is ARREST or Detain? Under the legislation, it can be seen should a person or private security company/ staff member - touch a person’s body and be found to have no jurisdiction to do so ( local policing command - does issue some rights to security staff- however there are strict outlines applying to using this power), may well find themselves on the end of a civil assault actions bought against them and possibly the store.
People are now almost in a second-nature mindset - when exiting stores opening bags that they carry for staff to check. It was a natural progression for the security industry to also suggest the scanning of dockets.
This person speaks of the matter of people “shopping for a pseudo-five-finger discount”. ( Pre Receipt scanning) He outlined a person who shopped in the store and bought a high-priced product. He carried it from the store and placed it in his car. The “alleged” person then returns to the store, removes a product from the shelf and ( in the redesigned K-mart style store) proceeds to the service counter. At the service counter, he claims that he has just purchased this item and decided that he really doesn’t think it is the item that will do what he wants to use it for> The CCTV security team watched the interaction and called the service desk making enquiries. The service desk staff kept on stalling until the security team appeared with the local police and then took the person into custody. He was a known criminal who was Floating from store to store, and this was his way of getting goods to PAWN for his nefarious drug activities…
In conclusion - If a person is sighted and considered to be a risk/or suspected of stealing. A store / Shopping centre, along with the local police command - imposes a ban on entering a store/shopping centre. However, there are a number of actions that need to be verified and submitted to support this kind of BAN!
The principle that most stores are now using is - ASK - Most people, when faced with a choice of not producing a receipt/ OR waiting for police to attend and verify, will opt quickly for the receipt and scurry off disgruntled.
Considering the losses that contribute to the larceny of goods, the store are hoping should a civil suit be actioned against them that a court of law would side with them.
There is a whole different discussion about “syndicated crime teams who are operating inside stores”.
3 Likes
Like you I just walk straight past the door person. I have never been stopped which is lucky for them as I do not see any obligation to do so. I try and have my purchases scanned by a human even if I have to wait in a queue. My thinking (probably pie in the sky) is, if the CTV shows customers waiting, extra staffed registers will be opened. Inevitably this will not make a scrap of difference to the declining service industry.
1 Like
Would prices drop if shoplifting became a thing of the past?
Depends on the market power of the seller i.e. monopoly v. a large number of similarly-sized competitors.
Maybe not or if they did, not by much. It would depend on how much shoplifting impacts on a businesses bottom line (compared to total sales).
If there weren’t controls in place, I suspect that prices would go up as it would only the the honest would pay for purchased items.
It is an obligation as entering a store you agree to the conditions of entry of that particular store. If you refuse to oblige, they can refuse you entry/ban you from the store and charge you with trespass should you not adhere to their ban.
1 Like
Possibly a service that will not be around for much longer. In addition to self check out there are trials of systems that tote the trolley as one fills it up. It may even auto debit as one wheels it through the exit.
Observations of other customers exiting the stores directly being asked for a bag and or docket check suggest the majority are happy to do so. There are stores we visit regularly. Being banned from one might not be a concern for some.
P.S. Should we go back?
Back in the olden days permission to enter a store came with a presumption from the store keeper the customer was intent on making a purchase. Service came personally, although often from behind the counter with the store staff choosing which box, drawer or slot to select your purchase (often unseen prior). Their selection was presented on the counter for a brief nod of approval before wrapping and the mechanical tingle of the cash register. Even our butcher worked on a similar principle. With the exception of sausages and mince the order was nearly always cut/sliced/chopped fresh from a larger portion. Often the carcass was hanging on a dolly and overhead rail leading from the cold room. The naked carcass a distinct contrast to todays pre-packed trays.
It is all about the shareholders of K-Mart and profit margins. Nothing to do with being respectful to customers. Nice trendy cash registers in the middle of the shop, just like JB BlowFl, a brain dead place to put the checkouts. Well guess what Kmart, you are nothing but a cheap Chinese import emphium, with goods made with Russian oil ! Times are getting tough and customers like me will bite back. Just try to treat me as a criminal, and I will demand the shop take my item/s back and give me a credit. Or shop at BigW, where the registers are where they belong, at the exit.
It is the same thing at Woolies and Coles; make the customers use a self checkout or stand in line at a normal checkout for 20 minutes to satisfy the shareholders and support unfair profits…
Fighting back: My time, like most, is worth around $80 an hour, make me stand in a queue for 20 minutes , that’s $30 of my time. Pay back for me is easy; dump the trolley and the shareholders pay to put the stuff back, or I hide (nick) something by accidentally leaving it in my reusable bag. Either way the shareholder will learn not to take advantage of customers.
1 Like
While I do not disagree with the seeming inane placement of checkouts, the lack of staffed checkouts, and so on never confuse profit/loss with customer service and reputations, although in a perfect world they would track. Business in the unregulated capitalistic world focuses on profits that grow annually as well as them meeting or exceeding analyst expectations. I’ll not comment on that as it would need to be a topic of its own and not germane to this one. A few related articles reinforce profits are up, up, and up regardless of consumer sentiments.
The bottom line is the investors have been and remain to be doing ‘quite well’. The customers? Without viable alternatives it is a ‘free range’ experience some might liken to the American wild west where anything goes they can get away with. Others look at the hard facts of big business and deposit their dividends. Comparing WOW and COL P/L is complex and not exactly a consumer issue and thus out of scope here.
1 Like
It can be very risky to shoplift even if done by mistake. According to a lawyer’s website when the store does an inventory and comes up short they start watching videos to see persons with the item, and pin point a shopper they think did it, often not a lot of evidence is needed to get an affidavit for a warrant. To fight the charge and prove innocence could cost thousand, and be even harder if paid by cash and not by card. And there’s no time limit for prosecution, could get a knock on the door a long time after.
Don’t even want to think about it if it’s done intentionally, can’t imagine anyone risking years in jail for larceny.
Sadly I don’t think they will. All you are doing is putting yourself at risk in return for a fleeting and illusory feeling of accomplishment and sticking it to The Man.
2 Likes
Well stated @syncretic . For all those people who get tired of waiting consider the only ones who suffer from a left full trolley are the innocent staff just doing their jobs. They have to unpack and replace the goods and as far as the business sees it their loss is limited to spoilt frozen, deli, and refrigerated goods that are accounted for under the broad term of ‘wastage’ and AFAIK is tax deductible as a loss.
Staff time? I am not aware they track everything staff do with their time and if they run out of time on the roster something suffers not including the bottom line.
2 Likes
About waiting in line at supermarkets:
the worst and longest times I remember at the supermarkets were when queuing at the cashier’s before self-service machines were introduced, having to wait for scanning of items and packing of plastic bags by the cashier for someone who had shopped for an army, and waiting for the dreaded Price Check, and waiting for the shopper before me to do their Banking when paying by card (entering a pin code several times before it worked, taking Cash out, counting it twice).
And the cashier stopping to take out the takings, putting them in a banking bag and calling a supervisor to assist with replenishing the cash register with more change.
Not to mention taking home crumbs instead of biscuits and cracked eggs and squashed bread in badly packed bags…. I could go on…
Using a self-service machine and showing the receipt at the exit is not really all that time consuming IMO
3 Likes
Those who indulge are often aware of the maximums as well as real consequences. This from Victoria (2017 data) that suggests the odds.
and this from a lawyer (looking for clients?) includes a hopefuly outcome they can ‘assist with’ in
District Court - In the District Court, penalties are decided upon where:
- The offence of stealing/larceny carries a maximum penalty of 5 years imprisonment. However, stealing/larceny is an offence sometimes dealt with pursuant to section 10 of the Crimes (Sentence Procedure) Act, meaning no conviction will be recorded, there is no other penalty, and you will have no criminal record.
People often play the odds from lotto through to shoplifting with eyes wide open.
2 Likes
