Is there a difference between organically grown and non organically grown foods

Food & Drink
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A topic created to debate the possible diffrences between foods that have been organically produced and those that haven’t. If you make statements either for or against a particular view, remember to back it up with evidence that is scientifically peer reviewed. Also keep the discussion civil in line with the following Community guidelines

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Some articles produced about differences to perhaps assist the start of the discussion.

Organic foods have been shown to have lower levels of toxic metabolites, including heavy metals such as cadmium, and synthetic fertilizer and pesticide residues [10,17]. Consumption of organic foods may also reduce exposure to antibiotic-resistant bacteria [19]**

" Organic food: Is it safer or more nutritious?

Some data shows possible health benefits of organic foods when compared with foods grown using the usual (conventional) process. These studies have shown differences in the food. But there is limited information to prove how these differences can give potential overall health benefits.

Potential benefits include the following:

  • Nutrients. Studies have shown small to moderate increases in some nutrients in organic produce. Organic produce may have more of certain antioxidants and types of flavonoids, which have antioxidant properties.
  • Omega-3 fatty acids. The feeding requirements for organic farm animals (livestock) usually cause higher levels of omega-3 fatty acids. These include feeding cattle grass and alfalfa. Omega-3 fatty acids — a kind of fat — are more heart healthy than other fats. These higher omega-3 fatty acids are found in organic meats, dairy and eggs.
  • Toxic metal. Cadmium is a toxic chemical naturally found in soils and absorbed by plants. Studies have shown much lower cadmium levels in organic grains, but not fruits and vegetables, when compared with crops grown using usual (conventional) methods. The lower cadmium levels in organic grains may be related to the ban on synthetic fertilizers in organic farming.
  • Pesticide residue. Compared with produce grown using usual (conventional) methods, organically grown produce has lower levels of pesticide residue. The safety rules for the highest levels of residue allowed on conventional produce have changed. In many cases, the levels have been lowered. Organic produce may have residue because of pesticides approved for organic farming or because of airborne pesticides from conventional farms.
  • Bacteria. Meats produced using usual (conventional) methods may have higher amounts of dangerous types of bacteria that may not be able to be treated with antibiotics. The overall risk of contamination of organic foods with bacteria is the same as conventional foods."

" Does organic food live up to the hype?

[ Bayley Houston, accredited practising dietitian and Allied Health Coach at Honeysuckle Health}

“I haven’t found enough convincing evidence to recommend organic foods over conventional foods for nutritional reasons,” says Bayley. “That being said, there’s no evidence to suggest that an organic diet is worse than a conventional diet. If a client is interested in starting an organic diet, I have a discussion with them to help them meet their nutritional needs while doing so.”

Please note: The tips throughout this article serve as broad information and should not replace any advice you have been given by your medical practitioner."

" Is organic food more nutritious than regular food?

Organic foods are not healthier, per se, in terms of nutrients. You are still getting the same benefits in conventionally grown foods as you are in organic foods.

What is organic milk? Is organic milk healthier than regular milk?

Organic milk has the same protein, mineral, lipid and vitamin content as normal milk. Nonorganic milk typically has growth hormones, which are specific to each species. So, drinking milk with bovine growth hormone, which is degraded by stomach acid, has no physiological impact on humans."

Please note the use of Growth Hormones is not permitted in Australia.

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Specific to Australia and “Organic” labelling of produce.

There is no mandatory requirement for certification of organic product sold domestically in Australia. Many organic businesses however choose to be certified by an organic certification body to underpin truth in labelling requirements and promote consumer confidence.

Organic standards used in Australia are generally owned and managed by private organisations. Domestically marketed organic products are commonly certified by one of Australia’s six private certifiers who base their certification standards on the National Standard for Organic and Biodynamic Produce Edition 3.7 September 2016 (the export standard which is also referred to as the National Standard) used by the department for export certification.

Further information on the certification of organic labelling of produce can be found at.
‘Organic and biodynamic produce - DAFF

To note if produce is labelled as organic and is not certified the consumer must decide whether the product is acceptable. How it had been produced is not assured.

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I can’t find the standard, does anybody have a direct link?

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The British Consumer association, “Which”, did a review of this years ago. Their conclusion, not popular with organic supporters, was:
There is a difference in taste between Organic crops and their equivalent Non organic, but that was largely due to the choice of variety; organic chose varieties that were better tasting at the trade off of lower volume.

There was no difference in the actual chemical analysis of the food despite differences in soil.

Obviously there was residue of different substances for both types of production. Supposed natural sprays aren’t all non toxic, and maybe less obvious what they contain and hence, how to test, whereas non organic were more explicit.

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Are you able to find the link for the study/article? I am having difficulty locating that information on the Which.co.uk site.

There are some studies from around 2007, 2009, 2014, 2017 (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/16546628.2017.1287333) and 2019 (Foods | Free Full-Text | A Comprehensive Analysis of Organic Food: Evaluating Nutritional Value and Impact on Human Health) and some are finding no nutritional difference but the last 3 seem to indicate that the organically grown may have some better outcomes that previously thought. The 2014 meta study (Higher antioxidant and lower cadmium concentrations and lower incidence of pesticide residues in organically grown crops: a systematic literature review and meta-analyses - PubMed) seems to have some criticism about what studies were analysed, but was a peer reviewed article and is still referenced throughout other literature and studies…

From the EU Parliament is this about organic milk and dairy products Vs non-organically farmed

“7.5. Conclusions
For milk and dairy products, it has been conclusively demonstrated that organic products have a
higher content of omega-3 PUFAs, across countries and seasons, due to a higher content of grass and
roughage in the feed of organic cows. In a direct comparison, organic dairy products therefore have a
more beneficial fatty acid composition. The same is apparently true for meat as well, although fewer
studies have investigated this and therefore the evidence base is weaker. Dairy products make only a
minor contribution to the omega-3 intake in humans. On average, replacing conventional with organic
dairy products while keeping the diet constant will increase the intake of omega-3 PUFA by
approximately 4 %. Replacing conventional meat products with organic meat products may increase
the omega-3 intake by an additional 6 %. Policies aimed at increasing the omega-3 intake of the
population are likely to be far more efficient if they are directed at increasing the intake of omega-3-
rich plant oils (e.g. rapeseed/canola and linseed) and fatty fish, with the desirable side effect of
simultaneously reducing the intake of saturated fatty acids”

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The Which article was only about Vegetables.

So, your comments about diary and meat is interesting.

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By even suggesting the concept of ‘organic food recipes’ this topic is marginalising organic food. It cooks just the same way as regular food so use any recipe you want. Your meal will just end up tasting better.

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Thank you for your feedback about the organic vs not organically grown food debate.

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I use organically grown tomatoes as a basis for my pasta sauces . I find they suit my taste better than others .

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I found organic chicken is by far better than non-organic chicken. Organic chicken tastes so much better, They look different as well, (more pinkish).

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It would be interesting to see if that is because you are comparing organic vs non-organic or comparing genuinely free range raised old breed vs intensively raised commercial breed.

You can change many things about the breeding, diet and environment of the birds away from the factory approach that may affect looks, texture or flavour and still be either organic or not organic. We will never know if it matters until somebody does a proper blind comparison of methods to find out if certified organic practices actually make any difference in comparison to the better non-industrial practices.

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Welcome to the community @mnperry

Thank you for your observations. It would be interesting to know the chicken breed/s and how they were raised. We have family and neighbours with chooks. The eggs are great. They use commercial feeds as part of the diet. However the chooks are very free to roam (happy chickens) and get a greater dietary variety.

Another who suggests (River Cottage series) the breeding and environment are a significant influence on eating quality.

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One often cited advantage of organically grown produce is that it’s ‘Pesticide free’. But there are many valuable websites which give information against that widely held belief. Pesticides and herbicides need to be used to control fungi, bacteria, insects, rodents…even in organically grown produce. It is permitted to use light oils, copper, sulphur, alcohols, hydrogen peroxide, soaps, neem oil (which is classified as a poison in Aus.), biological substances…
Some excerpt below:
From: betterhealth.vic.
Eating organic produce:
Many people choose to buy organic produce to avoid pesticide residues. Organic farming grows produce without the use of synthetic chemicals or pesticides. However, organic foods are not necessarily completely chemical free because organic farmers may use natural pesticides on their crops.
Even naturally occurring pesticides may cause problems to humans if they are consumed in large amounts.

From nbcnews:
But let’s get one thing clear: there are pesticides used in organic farming, but they’re derived from natural substances rather than synthetic ones, And as Carl Winter, Ph.D., Extension Food Toxicologist and Vice Chair, Food Science and Technology at University of California, Davis puts it, in either case, “the dose makes the poison.”
How concerned should we be about pesticides?
There are theoretical concerns about pesticides… Winter doesn’t think we should and says “these concerns are based on values, not science.”
Toxicologists like Winter are looking at three pillars of risk: How much of this stuff are we really getting on our food, how much of the food are we eating and just how bad is the amount we’re ingesting? … If you don’t know the levels of pesticides in strawberries and spinach, how do you know they pose any problems? Winter, along with other scientists, say they don’t.
And while natural pesticides certainly sound healthier, it again boils down to how much of a specific substance you’re ingesting. In the amount we’re consuming them neither natural nor synthetic pesticides present any cause of concern.

PS there is also Pesticide Drift to be considered. This happens when synthetic pesticides such as volatile gases/droplets move through air and soil used in neighbouring fields.

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Yes, the standard says you can use pyrethrins extracted from a daisy as an insecticide but not if synthesised. It is the same class of anticholinergic poisons with the same general properties, used at the same concentration and may even be the same compounds.

I see no reason why ‘natural’ pesticides cannot drift as well. This is more a question of how and when you spray not what you spray.

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The EU have already looked at the evidence regarding dairy and meats and have accepted that organically produced foods in these areas do show different profiles to non organically produce (evidence is weaker for meat than dairy because of more limited studies in the meat profiles). Whether this equates to different flavour profiles, I can’t say. Does the presence of higher Omega 3 and possibly other fatty acids in organic meat and dairy change the experience?

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Nor can I as I don’t know if they looked at chicken meat and I don’t know what it was compared to. There could be other ways to raise chickens that would have the same flavour as organic so we cannot say that organic growing is the reason for the reported better taste.

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They did include studies that looked at chicken meat. From the linked EU report in Is there a difference between organically grown and non organically grown foods - #7 by grahroll, it is indicated that poultry was the subject of studies, how many I do not know and it is stated in the report that so far there have been limited meat studies. There is a reference to a meta-analysis that included chicken meat and the meta analysis can be read at Composition differences between organic and conventional meat: a systematic literature review and meta-analysis - PMC.

Some excepts from the analysis:

“However, it should be noted that only five individual studies were available for WM of SFA contents in chicken meat and that results differed between studies and/or countries/regions. Three studies (from the UK and Italy) reported no significant difference, whereas two others (from the Republic of Korea and the USA) reported significantly lower SFA concentrations in organic chicken meat (online Supplementary Table S9).”

“For MUFA, WM detected significantly lower concentrations for pork and chicken only (Fig. 3 and online Supplementary Fig. S14). However, it should be noted that only three and five individual studies were available for WM of MUFA contents in pork and chicken meat, respectively. For pork, results differed between studies and/or countries/regions; one study (from Poland) reported no significant difference, and two (from the Republic of Korea and Sweden) studies reported significantly lower MUFA concentrations in organic meat (online Supplementary Table S14). For chicken meat, all five studies (from the UK, Italy, Republic of Korea and the USA) reported significantly lower MUFA concentrations in organic chicken meat (online Supplementary Table S14)”.

“For PUFA, significantly higher concentrations were detected for pork and chicken meat, but not for beef and lamb and goat meat (Fig. 3 and online Supplementary Fig. S19). However, it should be noted that only four and five individual studies were available for WM of PUFA contents in pork and chicken meat, respectively, and for both pork and chicken meat results differed between studies and/or countries/regions (online Supplementary Table S19). For pork, one study (from Sweden) reported no significant differences and two studies (from the Republic of Korea and Poland) reported significantly higher PUFA concentrations in organic meat. For chicken meat, two studies (from the UK and Italy) reported no significant differences, whereas three studies (from the UK, Republic of Korea and the USA) reported significantly higher PUFA in organic chicken meat (online Supplementary Table S19).”

Another study that may interest is from Uruguay and was about the composition of organically raised chicken meat compared to conventionally raised chicken meat.

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=4d0f5742bca117f5057b6ad0e212d0d719d0784b

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Organic milk vs nonorganic milk.

Organic milk:

  • must come from cows that are not given any hormones.
  • Must come from cows that are not treated with antibiotics.
  • 30% of the diet must come from pasture.
  1. All milk contains hormones naturally produced by the cow. In Australia the use of estrogen drugs in milking cows is banned.
  2. Australian farmers can only give antibiotics to unwell cows, and the milk is then discarded.
  3. From dairy.com.au
    Overall, about 60-65% of a cow’s diet comes from fresh grazed grass averaged out over a year. Farmers often work with nutritionists to ensure their cows receive a balanced, healthy diet to meet their needs throughout the year. Nearly all farms in Australia provide pasture to their cattle for most of the year.
    17 Jan 2024
Omega 3:

From businesswales.gov.wales Omega 3 in milk
Omega 3 levels in milk can be influenced by the cow’s diet, such as increasing fresh forage feed intake. Consumer demands for organic dairy products and healthier foodstuffs means that farmers may be able to gain additional profits by increasing the level of fresh forage feeds within the production system.

Taste:

Organic milk generally goes through a process of ultrapasteurisation which kills more bacteria and extends the milk’s expiration date. The milk is heated to a higher rating which caramelises some of the sugar making it sweeter and tasting different than pasteurised milk.
That process also reduces some of the milk’s vitamins and protein content and makes it unsuitable for making cheese.

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