There has been mixed reports about the payback period, Some are very optimistic while others indicate that the battery will not pay for itself over its life.Choice has produced a buying guide in relation to home solar battery systems:
This buying guide states:
For most homes, we think a battery doesn’t make complete economic sense yet. Batteries are still relatively expensive and the payback time will often be longer than the warranty period of the battery.
There are also a number of threads in the forum where other members have provided their own thoughts on solar battery systems. These threads include:
One thing which is very concerning about batteries systems is that they are relatively new technologies and current available models are not reliable. It is worth reading this report:
Personally I would be waiting a few years until the battery industry can prove that their batteries are reliable, and there is sufficient evidence indicating that for most (rather than a few) consumers a battery system is economically viable proposition.
What do you use at midnight? Pool, electric hot water storage system, air conditioning?
If it is the pool and hot water, it may be possible (subject confirming with your local utility) to change the times that these devices operate. For example, to run water heating or pool cleaning during the day when your would otherwise be exporting. Shifting their use to when solar is being generated may increase the value of the solar being generated. Calculations need to be considering difference in FiT, cost of midnight/offpeak use and whether one also draws additional electricity from the grid when the devices are used during the day (as usually this is peak times compared to night time electricity prices)
Lead carbon battery Technology.
Does the step change due to improvements by the CSIRO in the performance of this technology offer a practical alternative.
One of the challenges at present with lithium battery technology is the rapid rising rate of demand. This has created a floor for the price of lithium technology batteries, which may not go away anytime soon.
There is limited practical experience to fall back on with the latest lead carbon batteries? They are not yet in the Canberra based battery testing program.
The battery packs are rated to 4200 cycles at 70% dod. A 24kWh pack retails at around AU$12,500 and a monster 48kWh pack at around AU$23,000kW. The batteries use no lithium or cobalt and are maintenance free.
Observations:
Our household Solar PV data suggests lead carbon might be as of today the best matched solution for our needs if we were to go off grid. Although it would still be a $20,000+ investment. Feel good do good more than an economically sound decision. Unless feedin tariffs locally fall from their current 20c to the pittance of some other places.
The 24kWh pack would offer a great match to our recorded grid import which is highly variable. The base is a low <5kWh for a large number of the days each year. On the other days it peaks at 10-12kWh due to additional heating or cooling needs. There are also days with low solar due to weather effects, which would also stretch the need for battery over a few days. A 20 year battery life might be a reasonable expectation due to the high percentage of lower discharge cycles.
Move to the Centre of the political universe, the SE corner? Although Origin have dropped their rate to 15c I think, against a slightly lower retail supply rate than others on a solar plan.
An aside:
As for our 25+ years living North of the tropic, we came to accept that one symptom of having gone troppo is always voting for the same team and expecting they care.
No favourites in the competition. Except perhaps following on from the ++1998 Qld State election. Every one from John Howard’s Minister and Mackay local farmer De-Anne Kelly to local Mayors all over North Qld found funds they did not know existed. Mackay was upgraded to a second Bruce Highway bridge giving the city a four lane highway to connect the south to the north. Something that until then was kicked back and forth for a decade between all three levels of government as being the others to pay for. Unity in crisis! How surprising.
++ 22% or there abouts of the vote and many seats in state parliament to the party of the fish and chip person and others.
Unfortunately the far north of Qld is only getting a study into a new coal fired power station way down south near Collinsville (About a days drive and one stop for fuel south of Cairns). I was looking at the cost comparison of the best Gas Combined Cycle Power vs Hyper ‘Supa Dupa’ Critical Coal Power in the USA, and other options. It’s going to save NSW from running out of electricity or as it does now purchasing surplus from Qld. Gas compared to coal is half the capital up front and less than 2/3rds the cost for the power produced. Aside from the GHG concerns with either, the cost of generation has less to do with the final retail cost of electricity. It’s much more to do with the retail margins.
And yes there are other options for the crisis in the NEG. A separate topic?
It is innovative as it uses hydrogen from water for the energy storage and a fuel cell to regenerate electricity. Whilst it is about the same size as Li ion batteries, the cost is about 3 times Li ion batteries ($34k v $12K), so is the storage capacity (40kW v 10-13kW).
These sort if systems may be beneficial when domestic storage is needed to meet future energy needs of a home and local distribution network. One might only need 1-3 of these batteries, rather than 3-9 of other battery systems. The space saving in an average home will be noticable.
I was thinking one would be more than enough for me! and I can use up to 60kWh in a day in summer.
The cost per kWh would appear to be slightly less than Tesla Powerwalls, although what the actual cost turns out to be when it becomes available remains to be seen.
One thing they don’t mention is the efficiency, and I suspect a significantly larger PV system may be required due to the higher efficiency of Lithium batteries vs electrolysis and fuel cell losses.
Also missing in the release are details of the power rating of the storage system. Only the storage capacity has been mentioned. Does the electrical power input and output of the installed electrolyser and fuel cell match a Tesla PowerWall 2, IE 5kW/5kVA ?
We don’t really know, but based on the current conversion technologies. The 40kWh Electrical equivalent hydrogen storage option planned for 2021 might need to be coupled to at least a 10kW electrolyser and PV system to deliver 20kW of stored energy per day. (Assumes a 80% electrolyser efficiency and 60% fuel cell efficiency for 48% trip efficiency. Losses in DC/AC Inverter and panel DC/DC converter not considered as these also occur with a Powerwall.)
Fuel cells perform best with stable loads. Hydrogen powered vehicles include a battery/super capacitor to manage peak and variable load demand.
Most homes use electricity in short high powered bursts. Solar PV also comes in a short burst over 4-8hrs daily.
It will be useful to know more assuming more complete specifications and performance data will be available for preorder customers to consider.
It might be a great way to go off grid with a smaller battery storage meeting peak demands, and the hydrogen to provide long term security over several days or longer.
That doesn’t really matter, it is what the battery and inverter can deliver that is the main limiting factor, I suspect the fuel cell output will be somewhat less than that.
At the moment, this hydrogen fuel cell storage for home use is just a story. It has potential to be of use, maybe, one day, but it is not a product. And just what problem is it that this technology is trying to resolve? Save a bit of space in return for much higher cost?
battery reliability (lithium ion and flow batteries are yet to be overly reliable). It will be interesting to see the reliability of this technology should it come into fruition.
reduce environmental impacts of raw material mining. A significant amount of lithium mining occurs in fragile ecosystems (I have I have covered this elsewhere)
potential ability to use hydrogen for other purposes if it can be transferred to another storage device, such as fuel cell vehicles
As I outlined, the cost per battery is more, but if they can deliver on their indicated price and capacity, it is comparable per unit of energy to other battery storage systems. If the technology is successful and there are economies of scale, there is potential that costs could end up being less.
Most households use more than 10-13kW per day and would need possibly 2-3 existing batteries. If electric cars end up dominating the market, then one would need 3+ to cater for domestic use and car battery top-up. Then this is where this battery becomes very attractive.
Hey, I don’t promote Lithium batteries as the great technology for energy storage to end all others. But it is here now and works. You can go out and buy batteries made out of the stuff. Yes it is a finite resource, so recycling is important. But if you want to get specific, so is free Hydrogen on earth. In fact there is almost NONE to be found since it is too light to be kept in the atmosphere. We have to separate it from organic and inorganic molecules using energy and store it somehow in a way that doesn’t use more energy and cost more than it can deliver when recombining again…hello solar and wind.
No, science…water is made up of two hydrogen atoms and an oxgen atom. Burn or oxidise hydrogen and water results. This website gives a popular science explanation on the process with a fuel cell.
