COVID-19 Vaccine Practices

I have been checking the COVID eligibility and locations website https://covid-vaccine.healthdirect.gov.au/eligibility?lang=en for some time, and there were no facilities near us, now there are some GP clinics within an hour, but most (on the website) say they are not taking any bookings.
Went to our local GP yesterday for the usual and he informed us he was holding a clinic today where he would do us both. Receptionist gave Mr Z a time, but said I was not on the list. The surgery is not open on Fridays and the doctor’s name is different, so I am thinking it is a special arrangement. However, it is concerning that the official website does not list our local clinic, instead only offering those an hour away. There are a number of elderly in this town who can no longer drive and there is no public transport.

3 Likes

Both got the jab! They told me they had to do us in batches because there were 10 doses per vial. I was the “reserve” for our group and when someone didn’t turn up they put me in. I guess I was a fit & healthy 1b still driving etc. Most looked in poor shape or over 80.

The day before there was a little stall set up 2 doors up from the clinic, and when I had a look at their wares, they started in on me about not having the vaccine (they saw I had come out of the doctor’s clinic). All the weird stuff - it will change your DNA, it is mind control and a Bill Gates funded microchipping, thousands of people are dying from the vaccine and they’re not telling us.
His son (a Q-Anon, Antifa, Anti-vaxxer & other world domination conspiracies) rang to talk us out of it. So after that, I despair that Australia will get enough vaccinated to reach herd immunity. There needs to be robust campaigns to counter this rubbish.

5 Likes

Our leadership often equates our response to Covid-19 as warlike in urgency and needs.

Taking one for the team seems only right. But shouldn’t the team be prepared to offer reasonable compensation for those who fall?

My lay reading of Australian law is it’s a voluntary decision to receive a vaccination, hence there is no legal recourse available?

P.S.
It’s not a unique situation.

2 Likes

No surprises since Australia is one of the most [classical] Liberally minded governments in the western world, and a bipartisan effort most of the time excepting in degree. Some consider our choices are between far right and centre right.

It is not complex in government’s mind. Everything is an individual’s responsibility and risk - unless it takes away votes. The corollary is anything that might attract some votes is on.

Get that vaccine, but if you have serious consequences nobody wants to know excepting the medical scientists who seek the cause and effect and cure relationships. As predictable as another robo-debt powered program? One advantage we have is Medicare so an adverse reaction may not bankrupt one if it doesn’t cause death. As long as you can get back to work soon enough?

5 Likes

ABC National Radio discussion with Geoffrey Robertson AO QC on the terribly poor Vaccine Rollout

1 Like

Everyone seems to blame the government, but the media’s criticism of the vaccination and its side effects and associated scaremongering has had an equalling or more damaging effect. Many friends and some family members aren’t planning to get vaccinated as they are concerned they will die from clots…looks like they aren’t alone…

Having the AZ vaccination at a Tassie government clinic recently, while the process was a little slow compared to the annual flu clinic, it was we’ll run and efficient. It was slow due to risks being thoroughly communicated, which incidently are extremely rare and the advice is now clot complications are now fully treatable if one seeks treatment when known symptoms are first realised, and requirement to sit for at least 15 minutes after the shot.

The damage the media has done will be very hard to reverse and has been and will continue to hr a significant factor in slow vaccination rollout.

Spot on. The media must shoulder much of the blame for serving up scare mongering as news.

And if anyone wanted an example of how puerile commercial TV “news” actually is, then Nine provided it this morning in the show my wife was watching.

The had a “reporter” at the Adelaide cemetery where the “Somerton Man’s” body was being exhumed, and the person said there was a large police presence, no doubt to keep idiots out of harm’s way.

At the end of this exciting live cross, the studio person said that they would check back again shortly with the “reporter”.

WTF.

The forensics people are going to have confirmed his identity in 30 minutes?

image

Reality is the media are mostly click bait experts and run with anything they see they can run with.

The bottom line problem has been government’s failures to frame and manage the message as the science and advice evolved. It was mostly one knee jerk release to another.

The 2nd issue was that when people were queued up in anticipation there was nothing to jab with. So many reports of clinics getting 0 to 50 per week when they could have used 100’s per day. The failure is squarely on those responsible for managing the message, and those arranging and managing and overseeing the logistics. Good management? I think not.

Confuse the public and foster a loss of confidence, or outright fear and this is the predictable outcome.

3 Likes

The government has been very clear in it’s messaging and changed advice if and when needed (such as changing recommended vaccination for under 50s). If the government failed to change its advice as new information or emerging data occurred, this would be very concerning as it would show that they are unable to react to changes and what it in the best interest of the community.

Unfortunately government news isn’t click bait type material and attract viewers to news websites to generate advertising revenue. Sensationalising the vaccination process and side effects has deafened other stories including what experts and the government has said in relation to the vaccinations.

A supply is not the fault of the government but the rush of many countries to vaccinate their citizens as soon as possible…this reduces available supply. Only so many sausages can be made in a sausage factory.

As Australia’s UQ vaccination did not proceed due to false positive HIV test results and we have been reliant on overseas research and development, we have had to wait until it has been ready for production. Australia produces the AZ vaccination through CSL laboratories. AZ vaccination has become a target for the media and as a result even if Australia could get all its doses tomorrow, many would be used for the above reasons.

The government has over ordered quantities of vaccination from other producers to ensure Australian’s have the opportunity to have the best vaccinations available when approved by the TGA. A criticism could be that it has relied on vaccinations from developed countries and intentionally bypassed those from countries like India and China. There are good reasons for doing this.

There has been criticism that the Australian government didn’t spends $10Ms dollars on developing manufacturing facilities for mRNA vaccinations…which is a little unfair as the technology was unproven until late last year and the government could have been equally criticised if it had invested in facilities only to find out that the technology was not successful, if this had been the case.

Inform the public and change advice when new information is known and allow the media to pull strips off the government and allow it through its news ‘confuse’ the community…or…don’t change advice, put the community at risk but don’t confuse the community.

I wonder which is a better proposition?

Governments are not usually agile, but when they are, they get criticised for being so.

We can disagree. They were clear in conveying every change of advice in a manner that allowed and possibly encouraged our click bait press to do what they do best. ‘Attack this and that’ for clicks. I see the majority of our pollies as amateurs who are appointed to their positions as political perks of seniority or their party positions, not because they necessarily have any skills to bring to their tables.

We can again disagree. Everything government (or anyone else) does can become click bait material.

We can again chose to disagree. Government by its ideology trusts business to honour contracts no matter how well or poorly they go. In this case government made and fostered expectations for how good it would be, and when the supply chain failed them (regardless of the reason(s)) they were flat footed.

Sometimes one cannot win, especially when when one is taking it on the chin and has no traction. Ducking and weaving has not worked for them, either, as it has gotten more out of control.

Sometimes techniques of propaganda are necessary to frame public policy, not just today’s advice.

We each have our opinions on how the current state of affairs eventuated, and agree it is complex. Our government has not been the only one to be copping it.

2 Likes

Which in our household has left us very confused as it sidesteps from one foot to the next to a handstand to a ….

If only they had delivered on the promise of having all of the 1A and 1B Aussies vaccinated.

It is not so. The Govt cannot or will not stand beside the daily progress on deliveries of vaccines as well as vaccination rates. Transparency is sadly lacking, as is trust for a multitude of reasons.

I’ll be stepping up - extremely reluctantly when eventually there is a local supply to be vaccinated, not knowing if I’m helping or taking the place of some one more needy who is yet to be vaccinated.

It’s a shambles, and it does not need the media to tell us so. What’s needed IMO is some clear and simple leadership. A daily score card to lean on, and demonstrate the difference we are making. It’s within the hands of the Government to offer a 20 minute media update on the ABC with counts of daily progress, state by state, cohort by cohort. A daily count on deliveries of vaccine orders would also show the gap and stretch the targets as more becomes available.

Is there any reason we should not know?
I can only think of one.

4 Likes

This comment unfortunately is 100% wrong. Why, they are not the ones driving decision making for Covid-19.

One has to remember that the chief medical officers under legislation run the show…unlike any other country where the politicians/government run the show (and for most other government decisions). Why has the Australian system been the envy of others and to date has protected our community? It relies on the experts advice rather than what is politically palatable. The media knows this and often fails to report it, but most of the community doesn’t. The most recent example that comes to mind was the India flight temporary ban where the media said it was a government decision but the CMO came out without much media coverage saying why the CMO had made such decision…blaming the CMO has no political mileage

This isn’t to say that some decisions have has some political influence…but political policies haven’t driven decisions.

It is a unique situation. If the government was making decisions, it would take time at the expense of action…resulting in many of the problems that exist elsewhere.

This is another furphy. There we never promises. It was the media that turned best case scenario targets into promises. The goalposts changed, and the CMOs advice changed in response to new information and developments.

One of the major deficiencies highlighted is the inefficiencies of government, and the lack of coordination between the Commonwealth and States. We are all Australians and not residents of sovereign States.

The overlap of responsibilities and the separation of responsibilities is something which needs reviewing and changed if possible.

It is no where near the shambles of other countries. Australia has been insulated from the ravages of Covid and it is easy to forget how lucky we are.

It is better to rush things and decisions and be like the US, UK or Europe…or be methodical and pragmatic and take more time to get things right…having more time isn’t a luxury other countries have.

Words escape. I was (hopefully obviously) referencing the pollies, not the CMOs. Furthermore the health people have a message; they are not PR or media experts. Honourable scientists often struggle to get science based messages out to laymen. Laymen are prone to conspiracy theories and panic and so many other side issues that dilute.

It is up to the politicians to assure the ‘packaged messages’, and at the end of the day when government closes a country (not complaining about that at all), they own what transpires, good and bad.

Who would have thought there would be about as much panic about a vaccine as about COVID-19 itself if it was properly managed from messages to deliveries of vaccines. The properly is arguable.

1 Like

I suggestd this to my GP. I don’t work, I can isolate and social distance very easily, I don’t have family to contend with and I’m not a party animal… he told me that was just silly and I should get vaccinated as soon as it would be available, due to my age and complex medical issues. So I did.

4 Likes

I agree. I still don’t have an answer to the other question. Asking first hand it appears the staff at our mum’s aged care facility are now having or have had their second Covid Vax. There has been no official advice from the management it’s complete. They must be close as the residents are now scheduled for their annual flu vax in approx 4 weeks.

1 Like

We are only lucky because of the hard decisions most of us have so far accepted.
It’s unlikely any of us will forget what has been necessary, despite the has very noisy political dissent.

I was simply hoping to point out the mixed messaging. The latest from a Government that has calls to open up, while being critical of others for a lack of action, seems to be out of step.

On Wednesday, Health Minister Greg Hunt said people over the age of 50 who were currently eligible for the AstraZeneca vaccine could instead wait for Pfizer or Moderna doses, due towards the end of this year. “We want to encourage everybody over 50 to be vaccinated as early as possible,” he said.
“But we’ve been very clear that as supply increases later on in the year, there will be enough mRNA vaccines for every Australian.”

Those over 50 can wait or put off is also acceptable. The AMA wants a more affirmative response.

1 Like

Government has been much like the share market advisors with their clear messages such as ‘buy now because the valuations will go up, unless something happens and they go down.’

No, they have not. They have been insisting that we oldies have the Astrazeneca. And I believe that is likely to be about economics. They sunk a lot into getting CSL to make it and now they realise they made a mistake, not because of clots, but because it is NOT as effective as the others. But they have to get rid of it somehow. Sending it to 3rd world countries is one way. Making people over 70–60—50– have it is another.

They haven’t been clear about a damn thing since the beginning. “children cant get it”… “children cant spread it”… oh wait, maybe they can… I know enough about this kind of thing to know that children could get it if they were exposed… they just were not being exposed in the early days. It was irresponsible to make claims of that kind when nobody really knew… We have been bloody lucky is all I can say.

If you have a choice later, go for Moderna… its better than Pfizer. Also has the potential to make you feel desperately unwell for a few days, according to my American photography friends who’ve had it.

We will need to get jabbed again next year and I’ll be having Pfizer or Moderna. Don’t know anything about the others. I believe Astrazeneca is nearly ready to release an update to theirs which will then protect against some of the variants (South Africa especially) but the current batch does not, so if that variant gets loose in Australia, I will be going to ground… again…

I’m rambling… darn…

2 Likes

I am more of the opinion it is better getting what is available now than waiting 6 months for something better. The deal with CSL was economics, ability to manufacture since one cannot just build and commission a new high tech line in a few months, and importantly what at the time probably looked like a good punt AZ would be roughly as good as any.

Punts do not always work out for the punter, but AZ remains ‘not a fail’.

As you wrote, when something better becomes available for us you will be in line, and I’ll be in line with you.

It is as effective as others. The AZ and Pfizer from reports isn’t as adaptable to new strains as Moderna.

Any case, next year (?) the existing vaccination no matter which one used, may lose its effectiveness due to changes in the virology of Covid. It is likely Covid vacs will become a regular vaccination like flu or tetanus…where regular vaccinations (or boosters) are needed.