Rather than replicate I moved your post to this germane topic. You can also search the community and net for ‘Australian consumer law’ and ‘letter of complaint’.
That is a shocker. Could it be so simple as not leveled (tilted backwards) as fridges usually are meant to be?
It depends if you can establish whether it is a minor failure (easily fixed) or a major failure, or if the unit delivered is unacceptable quality per the Australian Consumer Law.
If you want to make the process more crisp write and deliver a formal letter of complaint (see above to find tools to assist) to the retailer’s management. Close by telling them what you want and by when. Get it receipted. The retailer cannot fob you off to Westinhouse as not being their responsibility, and if they try get it in writing or log the person, date, and time when they tried and report it to the ACCC because that would be misrepresentation. OTOH The retailer taking responsibility for dealing with Westinghouse may work since they have more leverage than yourself, yet it remains the retailer who ‘owns’ your product problem, not Westinghouse.
Only you can make that decision. Depending on your location and the retailer (eg do they have more stock) I would be asking for a new fridge. It is unusual for door to open as you describe and could indicate anything from a twisted frame to a simple misaligned door - and that should not be at the customer’s risk.
At worst, the product you had delivered is not exactly as described (eg shown). Would you would have bought that fridge if the one shown by the sales person had the same problem and just dismissed it.
Plz let us know how you go, and identifying the retailer can be helpful to other consumers to know how they support their customers.
Most frost free fridges the fridge and freezer is connected by ducting (to blow cold air through the fridge).
If one is used to closing a door firmly (almost like slamming which needed to be done with the older type fridges), the other door on the fridge will open as the pressure from the air within the slammed door compartment is pushed to the closed door compartment, making the closed door pop open.
If the closed compartment door opens even with the smallest of force needed to close the other door, it appears that the seal may be faulty. The most likely scenario would be that the magnetic strip was not installed or installed properly in the manufacturing process. This magnetic strip pulls the door shut and holds the door closed so that it doesn’t open voluntarily. If this is the case, it is definitely a claim against the retailer as they will need to resolve. They shouldn’t be passing you off to or making claims that they need to wait to see what the manufacturer says as a fridge needs to be in good working order for food safety and they are responsible for resolving. As @PhilT has indicated, let us know who the retailer is as it seems they don’t know their responsibilities under the Australian Consumer Law.
Some franchises have excellent reputations and others less so, noting each HN franchise is an independent business and their relationship is the signage (look and feel) and joint marketing/product campaigns, ie you are not dealing with HN, you are dealing with that specific franchise.
Australian Consumer Law I thought gives consumers protection against shonky products beyond the usual 1 or 2 year warranty. But NSWFT could not tell me, just how many more years of protection is given to consumers.
My case: I bought ceiling light fittings 6 years ago to replace fittings that have been in place for 20 years (and still worked). One 6 year old fitting does not work. Another has a cover that is broken.
The retailer when approached had no interest in repair or refund and told me to talk to the importer. “That’s our policy if a good is over a year old”.
Cost to purchase or to replace (parts and an electrician’s labour) say $250.
The importer ignored 3 of my emails and hung up on me when I called.
The retailer now advises that the importer states that I should expect such degradation of hardware after six years. No spare parts are available in any case. That said, the retailer will offer me $50 a a goodwill gesture.
Is the retailer and importer escaping their legal obligations or should we all assume that light fittings (and who knows what else) may have to be replaced every few years?
The reason for that is it is often subjective requiring the consumer to make their case, case by case. It also depends on the price, claims made in advertising or packaging, and can appear subjective rather than objective.
Establishing a reasonable life for any product requires personal research. Choice has advice on major appliances but not light fittings. To pursue rights under the ACL requires one to do their research and write a formal ‘letter of complaint’ (there are already many links to the relevant Choice and ACCC pages in this and other topics), and send it receipted or hand deliver it.
Reputable companies will respond. Some companies know NSWFT and its interstate ‘sisters’ have no powers and ignore them as well as the consumer, requiring the consumer to go to court (NCAT).
FWIW the retailer ‘owns’ warranty and product problems under the ACL and cannot fob you off to the importer, but acting as an intermediary seems to meet the minimum standard for caring for their customer.
If you can establish that 6 years does not meet your acceptable standard of quality through comparative research, you might achieve a better outcome than a $50 discount, but considering a sparky’s call out fee in Melbourne it appears your light is roughly $100~150 based on your $250 estimate for replacement. It might not meet the price-performance standard necessary for expecting a very long life; I am not expert to advise.
That your old fitting went for 20 years in not germane to those you purchased. How does your one light ‘not work’? How did the cover on the other get broken? If writing a letter of complaint it matters for establishing a claim.
A policy does not replace the law, as you seem to be aware. You could write a letter of complaint to the retailer and see how you go. You will need to write the letter assuming the reader knows nothing, and as if you are a silk appearing before a magistrate.
Please let us know how you decide to go, and if you get an acceptable outcome.
Do you have the made and model of the light fitting?
Was the light fitting bought from a Australian seller/store?
Often as @PhilT indicated, it is best to do some searches to see if the particular brand and model has known issues. If there are known issues, it is a lot easier to argue that the fault is with the product and not how it was installed or the environment is was operating.
If the fitting was bought from an Australian store rather than online potentially from an overseas seller, it is far easier to get a potential resolution if the fault is deemed to be a product fault.
The life of a product is challenging and is generally that a reasonable person would expect a product to last. Being 6 years old, one would expect a light fitting with a removable bulb to last significant more than 6 years (the bulb may last less than that though).
If the light fitting is say one of the more modern sealed LED fittings where the bulb can’t be changed, then 6 years could be seen as reasonable if the light had been used very regularly and hours of operation would be towards the design life of the LED bulb (which could be 10,000 hours plus). For a light of 6 years old and with a life of 10,000 hours, one would need to use it around 4-5 hours per day to meet the bulb design life. In such case, a reasonable person would consider that the light fitting has had a good life and that resolution under the ACL is unlikely.
It is worth noting that we have had some electricians/retailers try and sell us us some of the single unit fittings with sealed LEDs (not changeable) …we didn’t buy them and instead looked at ones where bulbs can be replaced buy a leyperson. The sealed all in one fitting needs an electrician to replace the fitting if the bulb fails…somethings which can be an expensive exercise.
Thanks for feedback PhilT.
To answer your points: the lights cost $50 each and at the time I hired a sparky to install several lights at a cost of $420. I estimate the cost for labour for these two lights is (2 x $50) plus say $150 for the sparky.
I complained in person and by letter to the nation wide DIY retailer (whose name starts with a “B”), but the store mgt where I made the purchases had no interest. It was they who washed their hands in 10 seconds flat and said to contact the importer (which a Google search of found nothing). When I approached head office of the retailer, after twicde approaching the store itself and 4 attempts at contacting the importer, I was told a month ago they will look into the matter. Head Office replied today relaying the opinion of the importer: expect degradation of the hardware and implying that 6 years is a good innings.
Interesting to note that in talks with NSWFT, NSWFT indicated that they often liaise with a particular person at that retailer’s head office. The same person who contacted me from head office. Why am I not surprised?
As to your query on what’s wrong with the light fittings: one does not work when I flick the wall switch. I assumed the bulb was burnt, even though it packaging claims it will last thousands of hours. I replaced the bulb, but that did not help. I changed the bulb for yet another bulb, but that too failed. I then took the seemingly “burnt” bulb from the non working fitting and tried it in another ceiling fitting and it worked! How about that! I concluded that then fitting is kaput.
As to the 2nd fitting I have a problem with, the bulb works but the plastic lid that covers the bulb cannot be held in place because 2 of the 3 the apparently flimsy levers that connect the cover to the fitting are broken. How I don’t know, because I do not recall a need to remove the plastic cover.
The light fitting or the switch. Your test cannot say as both may fail in some way. I cannot tell you from a distance which it is but the one with the moving parts that wear is the switch.
Thanks for the reply phb.
I will have to access my records to advise the brand of the light fitting. I do have the brand and model noted down.
It was bought in a physical store in Alexandria NSW and was imported from China by a Melbourne firm.
What I found interesting was that in late 2019 I bought other light fittings from the same retailer (and why not as at the time I had no issues with any light fitting) and 2 of the 4 purchased blew moments after the electrician installed them. Same retailer as in 2014. So in 2019 I complained to the retailer and it replaced the fittings and covered the cost of calling back the sparky.
At a subsequent visit to the store in late 2019 I mentioned to a salesman that I was pleased by the retailer’s settlement of this issue, but was surprised by the speed. He replied “you’re not the first to complain. From time to time we receive a whole batch that’s faulty”.
Looking deeper, I discovered that while the fittings differ between 2014 and 2019, the same importer was responsible for the 2019 lemons and the 2014 lemons. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that in 2019 the retailer was aware of the quality of products from this particular importer. And now it is hiding behind the importer’s opinion as to the longevity of the fitting.
Good day Phil,
Sorry for the delay but I was tied up with family matters. Yes Sir, it is Brilliant Lighting. How did you know? To be exact: brilliant lighting ceiling oyster 32w t5 avebury
Do you know something about this brand/importer?
Looking at the installation instructions, the fitting contains a fluorescent light starter/ballast. From your description above, it sounds like this starter/ballast has failed.
The crunch for getting resolution under the ACL will be determining if the ballast is the issue, what it is rated as (number of switch cycles), how the light has been used (number of times it has been turned on and off) and whether the use is reasonable compared to the expected life of the ballast. If the use matches the rating of the ballast, then the ballast could be seen as being at end of life and needs replacement - something a reasonable person would expect. If the use has been very low (which can be difficult to prove), then a reasonable person could then assume that the ballast failed earlier than should have otherwise been the case.
The challenge will be proving that the light should have lasted longer. Other factors such as the location the light has been installed (noting that Brilliant Lighting indicates that this particular light is not suitable for outdoor use), whether overvoltage occurs (due to solar installation or local network issues) etc can all affect the life of a bulb and ballast/starter.
It is worth noting that fluoro ballasts are a replaceable item and usually cost in the range of $10-20. These however need to be replaced by a electrician.
If you decide to pursue under the ACL, a favourable outcome is uncertain, but keep us in the loop of how you go.
Phb, thanks for the reply. I will read it in detail later on as I am enroute to a meeting.
To recap there were two issues: 1 x light fitting that does not work and 1 x plastic cover (on another fitting that cannot be held in place). Both fittings are identical brand/model
The fitting that does not work is in a hallway and is not used as often as other fittings in the apartment.
I asked for replacement plus the cost to install the replacements, which of course means removing the lemons from my ceiling and positioning the new fittings. Hence even if I was offered new fittings, I would be up for the electrician’s fees.
FYI, Bunnings replied after receiving answers from Brilliant: "We have received information from Brilliant lighting, the supplier of the product, who have advised that ‘The product in question is a T5 circular luminaire. From the descriptions provided it seems that after 6 years of unspecified use and switching, the T5 ballast has failed. This has easily surpassed the 2-year warranty period provided and it is not uncommon for an electronic product to have internal components degrade over time.’
With regards to failing clips, Brilliant Lighting are unable to provide replacement clips as they no longer supply this product and do not hold spares.
Whilst we are sorry to hear of this incident, as the incident occurred almost four years after the expected warranty period ended"
phb and PhilT: How does the above feedback from Bunnings and Brilliant influence your views?
This is the subject of my previous email and the ballast may seen to be seen as having a reasonable life. Hopefully this ballast can be replaced as they are relatively inexpensive parts…the electrician costs will be more.
If it is the ballast, it is unlikely that you will succeed under the ACL as it is possibly within the life expectancy of the ballast. Any brand of light will have a ballast with a lifespan…many could be similar to those used by Brilliant.
Asking for full replacement and electrician fees reimbursement therefore would be seen as unreasonable in the case of that light.
This is also difficult to determine. If the clips broke because of a design fault or because they were defective, then you may have an avenue under the ACL.
If they accidentally broke when replacing the bulb, then it will be hard to prove that the clips broke because they were defective or through what may be considered misuse under the ACL. Misuse being that excessive force caused the clips to break.
It is a difficult one…
It may be worth considering the offer for $50 and replacing the light fitting with a different one which is a lot more robust.
Phb, the claim by Brilliant that it is the ballast is their guess. Nobody from Bunnings or Brillaint bothered to inspect the item, as I was led to believe would happen when I first raised the issue. As to a life of 6 years, are you saying that there is an expectation that all my fittings should be replaced in such a short time if they all gave up so soon? If so, should the packaging of the product not make this clear? From memory what was clear on the packaging was that the bulb would last thousands of hours.
Also given an electrician would be needed, is it economical in the long run to just replace the ballast or to replace the fitting entirely?
I do not recall the circular fluorescent bulb being replaced, so it is more likely than not that the levers on the plastic cover were hardly if ever touched. That would negate the allegation of “misuse”. No?
I agree it is difficult one.
What about the fact that given my experience of purchases in 2014 and 2019 are surely not unique, did Bunnings knowingly sell lemons when they were selling these products?
I bought a Brilliant Lighting outdoor motion detecting LED 2 years ago. It looked shiny and nice for about 6 months but the finish deteriorated quickly thereafter. The warranty period on the outside of the box was 2 years, the paper on the inside of the box said 1. The importer was not helpful explaining but Bunnings advised to keep the box just in case. I kept a photo.
Other than the finish having worn down to base plastic on the sensor it has worked fine so far. I personally categorise BL as lower end Chinese product because of the cheap finish (it is an outdoor product!) and the lack of attention and consistency of the ‘paperwork’ end-to-end complemented by the importer who was as unimpressive for my simple query as they were for your problem.
I suggest whatever your outcome, since you need to get a sparky have a power point installed for the light(s) so in future you can DIY.
LEDs are commonly sold by hours, but reality is the electronics that drive them usually last much shorter periods. As @phb indicated the on-off cycles are important as they have their own design life, and QA seems all but random. I have many LED downlights (AC-DC plugin replacements for the old 50w halogens) There were lots of failures in the first 2 years and then all settled down. Lots of on-off cycles so the ‘weak ones’ perished quickly.
We have two Brilliant GU10 spotlight fixtures. They are made to a price point and agree are lower end products…made to possibly satisfy zest for cheap products. We select the Brilliant products as there weren’t any similar ones available to meet the size constraints of their mounting location.
Being lower end (cheap) makes them difficult to argue they should have a long life.
