Is this the first time with this physio?
I don’t trust the CCV requestors … seems to me CCV is about providing real-time validation of you holding the card, when they ask and save the details it seems counter-intuitive. Of course I often do, but its a judgement at the time … and on a card I can cancel ‘more easily’ …
Also I believe (from memory) that it’s not allowed for a company to store the CCV number (against bank/PCI-DSS rules), let alone in the same place as your credit card data.
Impossible to know unless they hit a fresh transaction that wasn’t ‘recurring’ I guess … and even so, you’d never know what they store.
I think that was a wise choice!
In a similar vein, I used AVG for my computer virus software and when I paid online by card, they assured purchasers that they did not retain card details. A month before the subscription was to expire, they sent me a cheerful email telling me not to worry about the subscription lapsing as they would automatically charge my card without any action required on my behalf. WTF?
After complaining, they told me their billing agent retained my details, which is just a bunch of weasel words. I have cancelled and instructed that my details are permanently deleted - I doubt they will take any notice and my particulars will be in the ether forever.
Lesson learned. I no longer pay online with my card - never. Now they either accept PayPal, send me a bill (preferably) or I don’t do business with them. For a company that is there to protect against computer fraud, I find their behaviour appalling.
You might be quite comfortable with paypal, but they store your details like any other business or they could not process your payments to a card. I have seen ever more companies that will process auto-renewals through paypal, although if all of yours are through paypal it at least provides one place to turn them off.
is the CCV required every time for a recurring transaction, such as an annual renewal, or only the first time?
At a previous job we had ecommerce sites which accepted payment via eWay (AU online payment processor). As recently as a few months ago they could optionally process payments without CCV number (you just didn’t get their full anti fraud treatment then).
Some businesses happily carry out the transaction without a CCV number ever being provided or requested. Others ask for it but I do not and will not use a payment process that requires the CCV for recurring payment plans, if it does require it I do not proceed and seek alternatives to the product or another way to pay the bill. If it is a single one off then a CCV request is probably a valid check as to some level of authenticity of the card user and I usually oblige in those cases.
Auto renewals lead most times to paying more than any other offer you can find by searching for a deal on the product (or being offered by the company/business to pay for the product to be renewed). One product I use, I get about a 40% discount every 2 years (on top of the 2 year discount pricing) by only paying as a non recurring payment. Recurring payments are easy money for the businesses so generally they don’t need to proffer discounts to get the renewal (maybe somewhat a lazy person tax??).
Norton do this as well. When you sign up it is not clear that you have agreed to automatic subscribing. You have to be very aware and read everything on each page through the process to notice what you are signing up for. I recently complained about this and was told you have to agree to it then after paying you have to go into your account and change the setting to remove the automatic subscription! WTF!!
Totally correct re Norton locking you in before you have the opportunity to opt out. I’ve been lazy at least once. And it is an overseas purchase!
Even worse Norton also charge more, typically 30% for a 5 pack auto renewal which downloads on line. You can purchase a box or packaged code in store for much less. And that includes the retailers costs and margin. It’s exactly the same product and will ultimately download a complete new install to each device from on line anyway.
What happened to the it’s cheaper online, download only world?
And even that they have an overseas account is hidden from view too. They quote you in Australian dollars, you pay in Australian dollars they even have an Australian office yet you still get charged the overseas transaction fees by the bank. And unfortunately Norton are not the only software company doing this McAfee and Microsoft are just as guilty. You are completely kept in the dark that you are buying overseas. And as you say, we still pay the ‘Australia tax’ even for downloadable software and content when there is absolutely no reason for the increased price (i.e. no shipping).
It remains alive and well, so long as you do not auto-renew or purchase directly from the vendor itself. 
A relevant thread for this aspect of discussion is
I have a separate account for online or phone purchases, and if I bought things using a card in person, I would use that one too.
It never has a big balance, so I don’t have to worry.
You have just reminded me, that in the past I always purchased an out-of-date Norton package online for $15-$20 and during installation it was updated to the latest virus definitions. i had forgotten this and this year paid top price for renewal online, by credit card. I’ll have to check it won’t be automatically renewed!
Charities scamming $850 from your bank account without your authorization!
My son had a visit in his home from a Mater Homes Representative. They asked him to donate or buy tickets. He informed the representative 4 times he was going overseas and was not in a position to do either. The fellow would not go. Breeching every standard required by charities under the legislation .He said ‘how about I record your details in case you wish to purchase or donate in the future’. Then if you want a Raffle ticket outside the supermarket, your signed up ready to buy it. My son said no thanks, I don’t want any tickets now or in the future.The Mater Homes again reinforced, we are just recording your details for information purposes only. He gave his details to get rid of him, but refused to give his CVC in case they were going to touch his account.My son questioned The Mater Homes Representive, asking,’ your guys aren’t touching my account or money are you’? The Mater Rep reassured him saying, ‘no mate without your CVC we can’t touch your money’. He finally left.
My son never looks at his bank statements, as with many people.
He needed checked his account when overseas and found $850 removed over a monthly basis by Mater Homes,of $40 a month without authorization or a CVC number. No notifications,emails or telling my son they were taking $40 a month from his account without his permission !
Note that many charities use a third party company to get donations and take 80 to 94% of the donations. Nevertheless the charities must have some idea they are scamming people on their behalf. I know this, because the ACCC did an investigations into these charities and behaviors having the third parties scamming people out of their money.
There is also now an organization set up by the charities to also address this. BIG BUSINESS,BIG ABUSE OF AUSTRALIANS having money taken without authorization.
I was able to get that money back from Mater Homes but only after threatening legal action and exposure. I had to get to the Director to get the money back!I also attached the ACCC Rod Sim final outcome report into the investigations into this behavior.
So beware. Some are disgraceful and your money can be removed from your account without your permission!
I have a similar problem… I refuse to have auto renew membership as much as possible. Especially newspapers.
The other month, I had a phone consultation with a doctor on the Gold Coast and after a week or so I checked my bank account and found out that they had charged me without even a courtesy SMS or call. I have never given permission to debit my card. They had kept the details at the initial appointment. I was quite upset about it and really showed my displeasure at their cavalier attitude.
I told them that they no authorisation to do so and were not allowed to just debit my card as I have never given any instructions. The secretary was very apologetic and I told her to erase all my credit details from their data…
Same things happens with heaps of other things. One has really to watch what you are signing for. I had a VPN on auto renew and found out again that I forgotten to cancel the subs. as I purchased another product. These things are treacherous. They gave us our money back which was great.
Write it on your calendar to remind you when any subs needs to be renewed.
No, they can take money without your authorization
I received a notification from my bank today that Norton had automatically renewed my subscription and charged me $189 via paypal which I don’t recall authorising. I did a quick comparison, saw a cheaper alternative and decided to seek a refund which you can do within 30 days. After pressing many buttons and going through a loop a few times I finally got to the request refund on automatic renewal button and selected. A message popped up offering a $95 refund if I stayed on. Unbelievably shonky!
I have not updated my CC details with them since I was issued a new one due to fraud earlier this year, so with my auto-renewal date coming tomorrow they have been bombarding all computers on our 3 computer security plan with increasing numbers of dire warnings for the past month. Each computer has had up to 3 warnings per day this week, and there hasn’t been any obvious way to stop them, other than hand over my new CC details.
I’ll be switching Windows Defender back on tomorrow morning.
