Charged to Relocate Software to Another Computer

Electronics & Technology
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Hi everyone,

I would welcome the Choice community’s feedback/advice/experiences on the following issue I am encountering when attempting to remove software off one computer and install it on a new computer. The computers referred to in my post were not supplied by the software company.

The scenario:

  • Software needs to be relocated from one computer to another. For this topic let’s call the original computer WS-01 and the new computer WS-02.
  • When starting the software, there are at least two checks happening:
    • Registration is checked, which is confirming an activation code is valid.
    • Licensing is checked, which calls out to an internet service, to confirm the details of the license purchased - in this case the software is only permitted to be installed and run on 1 computer. To clarify, the check does not look for how many concurrent sessions are running, the check links the actual computer the software has been installed on and locks in the software to only run on that computer.
  • The software installation package is available and matches the version purchased.

The issue:

  • The software has been uninstalled from WS-01.
  • The software has been installed on WS-02.
  • The software has a valid activation code allocated to the software on WS-02, and when registration is checked during software start-up this step passes with a valid registration.
  • The license check fails, saying the maximum number of user logons have been exceeded “Max users exceeded : 1”

More context:

When contacting the software company’s support they have informed me of the following:

“We can assist you in getting your [software] licenses reset so that you can authorize them on new computers. This is a service that we perform at no charge for all customers with a current [software] Support Subscription however, as mentioned in previous message, your support subscription has lapsed back in September2023 (see attached notices sent at the time). No worries though, you can still renew your subscription (at either the UOS (Updates Only Subscription) or FSS (Full Support Subscription) levels; both of which include the Administrative support to cover events like the license moves which you are requesting here.”

Upon further investigation, it also appears that this company’s support subscription model involves keeping your support active year-to-year. If you don’t keep your support subscription active, when you do decide to renew the subscription, the company will backdate your yearly subscription charges. So, in the example above, where the support subscription lapsed in September 2023, the renewal of a support, no matter which flavour of support subscription is chosen (UOS or FSS), means paying for support subscription covering September 2023 through until September 2026. Additionally, the software company does include software version upgrades for subscribed users, and there is a newer version available. This being said, the older software version is sufficient. The software company does offer a “casual support” option, which is pay-per-event and includes moving licenses between computers, but no version upgrades. One of their reminder emails had this blurb in it:

“Postpone Subscription: If you prefer not to purchase an annual support subscription and defer updating, we do offer an alternative option where you can purchase casual support for $[amount]/event (via your Dashboard online) such as moving your license between computers. Your license will remain at the version you last updated to and you will be unable to access the system updates and new features which occur each year. However, at some point in the future, the software will stop working due to incompatibility resulting from updates to your operating system or hardware. At that time, if you want to continue using the software, you will need to update to the currently available version which is compatible (this is part of the updates we have to do each year to ensure the programs continue to work with constant changes to operating systems etc.) and the price to update will be the annual updates fee multiplied by the number of years since the last update so there is no saving by postponing.”

This is the first time I have encountered a company who charges for software license relocations. I’m not sure if this is legal under Australian Consumer Law, given that new software is not required, the only requirement is that the current version of software is relocated from one computer to another.

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Does the software company provide guidance in relation to the transfer of the software to a new computer (removing it from one and reinstalling it on another)?

I have struck software in the past where a licence has to be deactivated/deregistered (not sure if correct wording) on the old computer before the software is uninstall from the old computer. This then makes the licence available for the software on the new computer when the software was reinstalled. If the deactivation/deregistration doesn’t occur, the licence still exists as being active hence preventing installing on another computer.

If deactivation/deregistration isn’t done but can be done, it may require manual override at the software developer’s end. I can see why a software developer may chose not to manually deactivate/deregister as it may be difficult to prove the licence hasn’t been transfered to someone else (and against T&Cs of the licence) or someone is trying to obtain the software without payment using a old, potentially defunct licence.

In relation to being legal, it will depend on whether you followed the stipulated process to move the software to a new computer and/or T&Cs associated with the software licence. They can also potentially charge since support is no longer being subscribed.

It would be useful to know the software in question as it would allow members to better respond to your inquiry.

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In the worst case, the software is completely locked to one specific computer and you can’t relocate it at all! To “relocate” would necessitate simply buying the software again but this time for the new computer. Software may, alternatively, be locked to a general specification of computer and may cost more for a more potent computer (and I don’t think you clarified how WS-01 and WS-02 compare in that regard).

It’s probably legal. The author of the software gets to set the conditions of use. You either agree to those conditions or you don’t use their software. You probably did agree to the specific conditions that are applying here and making your life complicated. But like most users you probably didn’t actually read the conditions.

As you haven’t mentioned any dollar figures, for all of the different support or upgrade options, it is hard to assess whether this company is being reasonable. And that would certainly affect the feedback and advice that you get. If we are talking about $30 then pay up. It cost you more to type your post. If we are talking $3000 then, yes, there is an issue to be considered.

A company will want to control the ability to copy software from one computer to another - since otherwise you might relocate the software from the old computer to the new computer and then “accidentally” forget to remove it from the old computer. That is to say, restricting what you can do with software is at minimum an anti-piracy measure.

You haven’t indicated what kind of software and what kind of environment we are really talking about. For example, your consumer rights are diminished (but not non-existent) when the consumer is itself a business.

A company will want you to pay for software support on an on-going basis, not just when you suddenly need it, because, for example, they are employing the needed staff year after year even when you are not needing support.

It really is a good idea to keep your software up to date. It’s not just about future incompatibility, which certainly can be an issue, but also about unpatched vulnerabilities. You don’t want to get hacked because you are running some old unsupported version … and that is doubly so when the consumer is a business.

For example, if this is Big Tech software then your negotiating position is non-existent … but if this is some niche software, there is a greater chance of discussing the requirement directly with the company and getting a mutually satisfactory resolution.

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This situation can occur when the software can have multiple licence usage attached to a purchase (sometimes called seats). The licence key can be used multiple times on a number of computers. So installing it with the key is quite possible, but once installed a check is done to see if there is still a valid seat. If not it then fails because the seat number has been exceeded.

Some businesses provide a reset by the owner of the allocated seats and sometimes it requires contact with the software business to reset the count. It appears from the message received that the count (seats) has been exceeded and needs to be reset. 365 Family suite from Microsoft as an example allows the transfer from one user or machine to another but requires de-registration from the previous owner/machine to the new one. Microsoft Server has a similar Licencing seat structure, there are many other examples. The 365 Family example does require a continuous subscription to continue using the product (including the moving of ownership). Many software companies have moved to a subscription model for both usage and support. It allows them a constant income stream, not like when a “lifetime” licence was purchased.

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Does the software company provide guidance in relation to the transfer of the software to a new computer (removing it from one and reinstalling it on another)?

There is no guidance for transferring the software. From the communication with the software vendor, the software is intentionally set to activate against a specific computer, with an internet check done each time the software is run, and no consumer-side way to reassign the license to another computer.

I have struck software in the past where a licence has to be deactivated/deregistered (not sure if correct wording) on the old computer before the software is uninstall from the old computer. This then makes the licence available for the software on the new computer when the software was reinstalled. If the deactivation/deregistration doesn’t occur, the licence still exists as being active hence preventing installing on another computer.

I have also dealt with this kind of software. Unfortunately, this is not how this software licensing works.

If deactivation/deregistration isn’t done but can be done, it may require manual override at the software developer’s end. I can see why a software developer may chose not to manually deactivate/deregister as it may be difficult to prove the licence hasn’t been transfered to someone else (and against T&Cs of the licence) or someone is trying to obtain the software without payment using a old, potentially defunct licence.

Yes, I agree the software developer or vendor need to protect their product. I think they are doing this rather well with the check performed each time the software is started. It does appear the lock in to a single piece of hardware is done with the intention to drive subscription or once off support payments.

It would be useful to know the software in question as it would allow members to better respond to your inquiry.

If is does help, the company’s name is MPanel Software Solutions, their web site is (defanged) hxxps[://]mpanel[.]com/ and the software packages are MPanel InSite and MPanel Shade Designer.

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Software may, alternatively, be locked to a general specification of computer and may cost more for a more potent computer (and I don’t think you clarified how WS-01 and WS-02 compare in that regard).

Do you have examples where software is locked to a general specification of computer, with a cost tied to using the software on a more potent computer? I know there are techniques to use a combination of unique hardware components to tie license activation to a specific computer, is this what you mean? WS-01 and WS-02 are very different in their hardware specifications, they both run Windows 11 Pro, fully updated.

It’s probably legal. The author of the software gets to set the conditions of use. You either agree to those conditions or you don’t use their software. You probably did agree to the specific conditions that are applying here and making your life complicated. But like most users you probably didn’t actually read the conditions.

I am pretty pedantic with agreements, but I confess that I don’t read every End User License Agreement, Privacy Policy, [insert company document here]. With this software package, I am assisting another company with this (this is a love job, I am not getting paid to do this); it’s all together possible there’s something written somewhere about this. Perhaps I should spend my time looking for that condition of use. The greater question still remains as to whether this is something a software company should be allowed to do, given I am not trying to pirate their software, I am simply wanting to relocate it to a different computer (removing it from the old computer). I even have no problem with them checking each time the software is started that their software is only installed and running on one computer (or however many the consumer pays for).

As you haven’t mentioned any dollar figures…

Is the cost really a consideration?

A company will want to control the ability to copy software from one computer to another - since otherwise you might relocate the software from the old computer to the new computer and then “accidentally” forget to remove it from the old computer. That is to say, restricting what you can do with software is at minimum an anti-piracy measure.

Again, I have no issue with anti-piracy measures. If they can check both activation and registration each time the software is started then they should be able to have an old computer deactivate when the software is uninstalled.

For example, your consumer rights are diminished (but not non-existent) when the consumer is itself a business.

This is software for a business.

A company will want you to pay for software support on an on-going basis, not just when you suddenly need it, because, for example, they are employing the needed staff year after year even when you are not needing support.

I agree, but this is not software support being requested.

It really is a good idea to keep your software up to date…

As an overarching statement, I agree. For this specific situation, the updating of the software is not what I am asking about.

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Yes, well this seat has super glue on it :stuck_out_tongue:
This situation appears to have the feel of a traditional software package, locally installed and run, but with a hint of subscription thrown in to keep the consumer paying.

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The current help files associated with their software states:

image
image738×417 91.5 KB

It appears that they are following this process. If the help file for your own version is the same, when it clearly states that:

Users with a lapsed support subscription will need to purchase a casual support event from their Dashboard page on mpanel.com and let us know after the payment has been made.

This then gives the right to charge for transferring the licence to the new computer, as you have agreed to these terms as part as accepting the use of the software.

It will be worthwhile to check the T&Cs associated with your version licence to ensure that they are the same/similar to the above.

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Even if not originally the same, they are likely to have been updated and continued use of the software is taken as acceptance of the new terms. As long as there has been some push notification of the change (email, reminder when starting the software), even if it does not detail how the terms of service have changed, it is unlikely that the original terms are still operative.

Additionally, the company could well say that support for version x has ceased, rendering terms of service irrelevant.

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From their Licencing agreement:

Contact List and Technical Contact us

Technical support is available to customers who:

Have a valid annual technical support contract or purchased MPanel Pro within the previous 12 months or are evaluating an MPanel Pro demo product.

In general, it is best to send the drawing showing the question as an attachment to the email, as this will allow us to respond specifically to your question. We will usually mark up the drawing and send it back to you.

Support questions should be sent to:

[email protected]

It is similar on their other products. As to whether it is illegal, it would appear to be a legitimate contract term. I am not a legal expert, to check whether the conditions are outside reasonable contract terms would require a legal expert who is adept at contract law to check.

QuickBooks and MYOB among many others use subscription models to support their products including licence renewals and licence moves.

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That is my thoughts from a layman viewpoint as well. These sort of clauses are common with technology based products from hardware to software. Similar clauses exist with Apple products…I have posted in the community about Apple locking their devices to new owners, and new owners needing to prove the device isn’t stolen.

It does concern me particularly since many products are becoming smart (internet connected)…cars, appliances, lighting etc that manufacturers could use such clauses in the T&Cs for the use of their products. Say a car with technology used to check one is watching the road ahead… decides to capture biometrics for ‘security’ purposes. Sell the car, the manufacturer locks the car on the basis that the technology can’t be transferred without some sort of payment. Such as payment is needed to reset biometrics to allow car to function. It is an extension of the subscription model, but, borders on…

If this ever happens to consumer products, there may be the political will to evaluate the reasonableness of such clauses or limit their application, even if they are seen to be legal.

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Something like: Understand Microsoft Fabric Licenses - Microsoft Fabric | Microsoft Learn

When the capacity can be measured in humans (seats, as mentioned by another poster above) that may be the appropriate way of sizing the licence. However for more general workloads, potency might be measured in a different way, as in the example of the above link. I could hunt up other examples but theoretical discussion of different licensing regimes doesn’t really matter. What matters is what the actual licence agreement for the specific software product says.

It could be, either in legal terms or in practical terms.

For example, given that you have said that this is for a business then ACL does not apply if the cost exceeds $100k, which it easily could for an all-singing all-dancing ERP package.

But really my point was that the cost has to worth arguing about. Simple question: If you were 100% convinced that what the software company is saying is not in accordance with their own licence agreement, would it make sense to take it to court? (assuming that you know that the software company has the assets to make it worthwhile to sue)

Fun question: Can you just leave the software on WS-01 and then wholly swap the “identities and roles” of the two computers? Sometimes that won’t work e.g. where the computer exposes an immutable unique identity and the licence is locked to that identity. Sometimes it will. (In any case, that might be impractical if the computers have to run other software.)

As an example (with my work hat on) we run applications in virtual servers. The virtual servers aren’t tied to specific actual computers and could readily be moved from one actual computer to another as our needs change or as hardware gets upgraded or as hardware fails. Would licensed software even be aware if such a move took place?

But it does seem as if the software company is offering you a specific process that will achieve what you want to achieve.

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Thank you all for sharing - I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to contribute different perspectives, information, and ideas.

The thing is I don’t want to need the software vendor’s support to move their software to a new computer. The software would work without any internet connection - the connection is only used for anti-piracy checks. Given the anti-piracy checks can register a computer they could also be used to de-register a computer - I don’t see this as a support level task, this should be automated. I am all for software vendors being protected from piracy; it’s for this reason I would not even entertain the idea of using virtualisation to circumvent the checks (or any other form of circumvention). I’ve heard the term loyalty-tax, but this feels like an honesty-tax. When did anti-piracy checks become a means to force honest customers to choose between one-time ‘support’ payments or backdated subscriptions? At the end of the day I am not the customer, I’m just helping the customer out.
As mentioned, I really enjoy the different perspectives being shared for this topic; if this situation is something which is not against ACL then so be it. Not all immoral acts are illegal.

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A vast number of Australian government laws fall into that category. “Other” people commit “crimes”. The burden of the corresponding laws falls on the honest.

Topical cases in point: 1. The Social Media Ban. 2. The new Stasi-like laws coming into force today burdening conveyancers and real estate agents, and lawyers who are doing property transactions.

But you could go AML/CTF laws generally. Or RBT. Or pervasive public video surveillance. …