Another article regarding shonky vehicle insurance.
Every vehicle insurance policy I have ever scrutinised has specified higher excesses for drivers not listed on the policy and not a cop-out no payout clause.
These grubs certainly derseve a nomination for a shonky.
Their Procuct Review reviews certainly sum them up.
Perhaps they should have stuck to their day job.
Then again, perhaps not.
What a shonky bunch of disgusting grubs.
Most are like that, but there are some policies that explicitly do not insure unlisted drivers under a certain age, and a few (when selecting options) that do not insure any driver not listed, to save a few dollars a year in premium.
From BudgetDirect’s FAQ as one of the easier ones to find:
This additional excess applies regardless of whether the driver is listed on your policy. (Note that, to be covered, all household members must be listed.)
We seniors elected to exclude all drivers under 25 since we are well over that, as are our children.
HBF in particular has a nominated driver or low kilometre policy which by the looks of it, is a significantly cheaper than a stardard and broader car insurance cover. This PDS states…
We will not cover any loss, damage or liability
This is possibly the cover taken out by the family to reduce insurance premiums. If this was the case, they were possibly hoping that nothing went wrong or forgot (if it has been a long term policy renewed each year) that exclusions existed. Having new, young drivers of the vehicle should have been an automatic trigger for one to look at the car insurance policy to make sure that the frequent driver was covered.
As the article alludes the car hire driver may have been at fault (but didn’t clearly state this), the car hire companies insurance should have covered the damage to the families vehicle. I wonder if the car hire driver was at fault or whether the family tried to claim against the car hire company when they knew their own insurance cover was invalid due to the above exclusion.
Unfortunately reading a one sided news article, one will never know.
I think this is important to note. The articles are presented to drive a bit of outrage and in turn clicks. Provided the exclusions were clearly communicated the insurer hasn’t really done anything wrong.
I took out a similar policy with Youi in the past because that exclusion made it a decent chunk cheaper as a novice driver.
Welcome to the Community @Prolimo !
This is the first I’ve heard of Carpeesh. I note that they are an agent for RACQ Insurance.
I am doing my annual sanity check since my premium predictably went up into lazy tax territory. I had a look at Carpeesh and saw a few interesting unique features, this one being fairly special.
A unique feature of your policy is our driver safety app, which provides access to update your policy details and allows you to report an accident at the scene. The app also samples driving data obtained using a paired sensor in your car and delivers feedback on recent trips. Other listed drivers can use it too.
It is not obvious who gets that feedback but my first guess is Carpeesh.
Yes.
How are DrivePoints generated?
Carpeesh uses a complex algorithm based on
hundreds of millions of pieces of historical
driving behaviour data in order to generate your
DrivePoints. The higher your DrivePoints (scored
from 0.1 to 5.0) the better driver we consider
you to be.
You share your driving data on speeding, use of
accelerator, use of brake and length of journey
amongst other parameters such as time of day,
fatigue and distraction to create your
DrivePoints rating. We provide you with hints
and tips to help you become a better driver.
and
Who can see my data?
We do not share your personal data with any
third party, other than our partners. Your data is
scored by an automated system maintained and
strictly protected by Carpeesh and its sister
company, Urban Analytica.
Carpeesh uses the information to bring you
personalised driving tips for the way you drive.
We also use the information for the purpose of
underwriting and claims assistance to ensure we
are able to offer you our best possible price and
service.
Who can access my data?
We will not voluntarily submit your data to any
authority. In some circumstances, such as theft of
your car or court orders relating to a serious
collision resulting in an injury or fatality, we may
be obliged to provide data to the police and/or
other statutory authorities for the detection and
prevention of fraud and other criminal offences
or as part of a criminal investigation. Urban
Analytica does use aggregated driving data to
assist in road safety research such as identifying
black spot intersections and improving driver
safety. See the Trip Data and Privacy Policy for
more information.
They mention how they monitor speed and what the user can do to contest readings. They also mention being able to remotely disable the app when you cancel the policy.
Personally I find it hard to imagine anyone who understands the full implications agreeing to this, but then, it’s not hard really - usually starts with ‘if you have nothing to hide …’ …
“If you have nothing to hide you have everything to fear” is always my take on it.
Moving on, Finder shows the following insurance companies operating in Victoria. The other states are not so different, save for state specific agencies and clubs.
1300 Insurance 1Cover Direct Insurance 1st for Women AAMI
AI Insurance Allianz Insurance ANZ AON APIA
Aust Seniors Insurance Agency Australia Post Bendigo Bank Bingle
BOQ Budget Direct Bupa Insurance CGU Coles Insurance
Commonwealth Bank GE Money GIO Guild Insurance
HBF Financial Services HSBC Hume Bank ibuyeco Just Car Insurance
Kmart Tyre & Auto Services (Mycar now?) NAB National Seniors OnePath
Over Fifty Insurance Ozicare People’s Choice Credit Union
Progressive Direct QBE RACV Real Insurance St. George Bank
Suncorp Bank Virgin Money Westpac Woolworths Youi
All are underwritten by one of Suncorp, Allianz, Hollard, Youi, QBE, and a small handful of others. When getting online quotes it becomes obvious there are not many, evidenced by the same underwriters ‘retailer network’ using the same quoting forms and same backend engine with different logos presented. The requirement to reveal the current insurer before getting a quote is dodgy as because they appear to avoid cannibalising themselves but will undercut to keep a customer regardless of with which of their retailers.
This superficially appears to be a fake marketplace, much like electricity and gas competition. The differences are in overheads and seller profit sinc e the PDS for policies from the same underwriter are all but clones of each other accepting minor differences exist. The sales offices can be brilliant but the claims experiences are usually managed by the underwriters and reliable claims reviews are not so easy to find. Productreview seems to have removed the ‘Claim made’ filter to make it more opaque than it need be, and one company that almost uniquely has great reviews are all from new customers on the basis of everything except claims. Choice can only report on the more popular companies.
After 11 quotes for as close to the same cover as could be entered, they ranged from $650-$1,400! As noted previously one must enter the current insurer to get a quote, so quote system knows if ‘their customer’ is shopping and seem inclined to marginally undercut themselves to keep the customer in their ‘group’. There are anecdotal reports the quote will change if one selects a different underwriter’s product as being the current insurer, but then one has falsified information and all bets are off.
Quotes from each ‘policy seller’ in any given underwriter’s group seem to be in fairly narrow bands so they limit competing with themselves while consuming lots of time and repetitive data entry by the consumer.
Other than musing (ranting?) about this, I have a few options and will save at least $160 lazy tax by getting an identical policy from the same underwriter from a different seller, or save $575 taking the lowest quote, eyes wide open the claims service varies from OK to ordinary from that underwriter, as best I can tell.
I hope someone got something useful from this.
Isn’t this only a problem if it changes the risk?
And their PDS states as a exlusion of cover…
Loss or damage as a result of any intentional or reckless act or acts by you or an insured person such as street racing, burnouts, donuts, driving into water, driving at excessive speed.
So if one speeds and it is recorded in data collected, it can be grounds for refusing a claim. I wonder how many policy holders ensure they always keep to the speed limit under all circumstances to ensure, in the event of a claim, their insurance claim is not declined.
I think I would avoid using them on this alone. I try not to speed, but can’t guarantee that I don’t from time to time for various reasons (overtaking and accelerating to avoid oncoming traffic especially if being followed in an overtaking manoeuvre…not seeing a new speed limit sign etc).
A cynic might reasonably conclude that, say there are 2 underwriters, A and B for simplicity.
If your present policy is with A they know everything about the premiums and offers of every one of their retail partners underwritten in the A domain. They know they need to protect their own, but have some latitude to undercut one to keep the business with another. There is some honour amongst thieves, so to write.
If you then change your present insurer in their quote system to one from underwriter B’s world, they have marketing information and have some level of confidence how competitive they are. They (their ‘unified quote’ system) might be willing to lowball their quotes to keep the business in A rather than lose it to B so they give their best shot.
Make better sense? As dodgy as? The algorithm is probably more complex with more underwriters and so many retail versions of their policies, but I trust I made the point in how it seems to work.
@BrendanMays, for future car insurance reviews would it be possible to report on claims experiences of policies issued by each underwriting group in addition to specific companies as is now the case?
My premise is that while there are myriad ‘front companies’ selling policies, claims are settled by the underwriters at the end of the day. Is it or is it not the case that, eg, all Allianz underwritten policies settle similarly with similar numbers of complaints, and same for QBE, Suncorp (or each Suncorp underwriting subsidiary?) and each other underwriting entity?
If there is a correlation Choice would add useful guidance on the group’s policies, and thus more ‘logo laden’ policies from that long list of sellers might minimally be hinted at or revealed as essentially the same; if there is no correlation found that is equally important.
Only a little OT and relevant to the carpeesh sensor concern.
Isn’t the carpeesh sensor just another version of an always there ‘safety camera’? Safe driving is absolute is it not, or is it?
In this topic many (rightly as I see it) have a worry about their insurance if one is tracked and they sometimes go out of the accepted envelope of accelerating, braking, speed, etc, but in the other topic if a camera catches you in a rare moment, extenuating or not, missed a sign or not, it was a safety issue, isn’t that how the Speed Trap dialogue has mostly gone? Is one a safe driver or not? Shouldn’t insurance penalise dangerous drivers, or not?
In shopping around I noticed while reading the Apia PDS that
Apia is a wholly owned subsidiary of AAI Limited and both are members of the Suncorp Group. Apia does not receive any commissions or benefits from AAI Limited for giving you advice or for the insurance policies it arranges. AAI Limited and other Suncorp Group companies provide Apia with the resources it needs to provide the financial services, such as staff employed by the Suncorp Group of companies. In addition to their salary, staff may receive bonuses if they achieve their performance targets. You will not be charged an additional fee as a direct result of this.
Interesting business front…
As I surmised previously, each underwriters offerings regardless of how many ‘resellers’, ‘logos’, and business names are involved, continue to fall into narrow ranges. I did not change my present insurer in their quote systems to see how it might (or might not) affect the quotes since I suspect they track that and I will be a bona fide buyer in the near future and wish to avoid having those tracks in their systems.
A cynical conclusion is since the underwriters take the money and process claims the rest of it might be noise although I accept there are minor differences between policy offerings from the same underwriters product base.
Is my cynicism about the car insurance business showing yet? 
/Musing ; Not asking for answers, just posing issues I have been contemplating.
Today I had a look at the AFCA ‘scorecard’ that has enough information to be meaningful but confusing trying to digest it.
Across the board, complaints are most often resolved for the company if they are not resolved during the initial complaint registration process. Does that mean the companies are more willing to come to agreement with aggrieved customers as Choice notes in its review methodology, or is it that some do a better job adhering to their T&C so they process claims more rigorously and they are thus less inclined to ‘back down’? Do some companies attract more ‘feral’ types of customers than others that might affect this? Do companies selling to oldies have more (or fewer) complaints because we expect more (or less) than other demographics?
The numbers of complaints shown may or may not be commensurate with their policyholder base because the bases are grouped by business size rather than the actual numbers of policies they underwrite. How does one compare the giants to the mid-sized in a meaningful way if ‘I’ have a claim? Resolution % may be a pointer, but seems imperfect.
What is the value of a $500 p.a. premium difference when it appears all the companies adhere to their policies most of the time (based on the few complaints adjudicated in the consumers favour)? How long one is on hold? Whether they call back when they promise? Slick web pages enabling policy changes and claims? All intangibles that are not measured/measurable and thus not reported. A premium is every year. How often is an at fault or any claim? Some will think going premium is a safety net but underwriters are anecdotally reported to have loyalty to any customer for the period of the present policy, not more.
/End musing
I suspect not too many find their way into this data collection so here is the link.
Is AAMI having a lend of us? Last year my comprehensive car policy covered my car for $35,000 for a premium of $1,131.69. This year after a claims free year that included restricted driving because of Covid the renewal is $1,163.84 for a cover of only $32,200. What is their excuse for this increase?
Welcome to the community @Mycroft
No, they are behaving like most insurance companies behave most of the time. I moved your query here because you might find comparative information that is useful. Suggest you scan from the beginning of the topic…
You can get an attractively priced policy as a new customer, but at renewal time you can be done over. Shopping around usually finds a better deal, and even getting a quote from the same company is often lower than renewing the same policy with the same company. Blindly renewing is called a lazy tax. Companies do it because it works for them.
A few ago AAMI had my business and remained competitive, but after a few years Allianz was cheaper enough to move. The first Allianz renewal was surprisingly competitive, but I changed vehicles midyear and the second renewal was akin to ‘we no longer want your business please go away’. The new car was a mid priced modestly powered 4dr sedan and I have an impeccable driving/claims record.
Shopping got me a $350 cheaper policy all other things being as equal as they could get. I could have saved another $250 but be very careful who the underwriter is. Hollard policies are Very Sharp but if you need to claim they can apparently be Difficult, including reducing a payout by apportioning (or trying to apportion) blame. I decided it was not in my interests just in case. The others are a much of a muchness, although some are a bit better or worse they put their customers through roughly similar experiences when claiming, on average.
Avoid the comparison sites as they do not include all companies, and some of those sites are owned by the insurance companies themselves, and only compare their own products and ‘compete’ against each other. Dodgy is!
I hope your visit today is helpful.
This might be at least topically helpful
and a 2 year old review [member content] where my experience getting quotes in Vic did not jive with the relative costs, perhaps because it is 2 years old, or I am atypical for some reason.
