We might also need a tamper proof sales storage container, tamper proof safe disposal containment system included with each purchase, and most of all - tamper proof grown ups who don’t forget to do all these steps reliably.
It still leaves a very large number of legacy devices in use. Although if new devices appeared with a secure trick holder, and the button cells started appearing packaged differently, including a safe disposal storage solution, perhaps the message might get through to more people, they need to worry about the older devices in use too?
It is a worthy cause, with a long road to success. How long did it take to change seat belt use behaviour and how many still do not wear one?
Hi @Fred123 - interesting idea, thanks for sharing!
We do support a mandatory requirement that button battery products house the batteries in a compartment that can’t be easily accessed by children, wherever possible. This can be achieved through using screws, but other mechanisms could work as well. In any individual case, the key question for us will be whether a child could easily get the case open and access the battery or not.
In addition, on the computer whose battery I replaced quite recently, the battery is itself held in place mechanically, and that too requires a screw driver or other long rigid implement to push on the mechanism in order to release the battery. No kid is getting that battery out in a hurry!
This kind of mechanism would warrant looking at for more widespread use.
You’re not wrong about “easy to access”. The cover on ours sometimes falls off, spilling the batteries onto the car floor. Talk about unsafe.
While making batteries harder for kids to remove is a good thing, it may make sense to look at other options: like using fewer junk batteries!
Examples:
Can unlocking cars and garage doors be done with your smartphone?
Can unlocking cars be done with no battery at all and instead use the piezoelectric effect within a key?
Should computers use a conventional and rechargeable battery? (particularly a desktop where space inside the case is not at a premium)
Some computers get by without a battery at all for the purposes of retaining the date and time while the power is off and instead get the date and time from the internet after they have booted.
Bathroom scales can be mains powered?
Does anyone need a watch these days?
In some situations if a battery has to be used it may solve the safety problem to use a larger battery i.e. where the application does not demand the smallest and lightest battery.
Full kudos for suggesting solutions that are about elimination of the hazard rather than simply modifying behaviour/conditions. We are all fallible?
While not sure about cars, some home security systems enable remote operation of door locks and the alarm systems via mobile apps. Hence the garage door via a suitable connection. Probably also more secure than most hand held remotes?
I’ve also experienced using a tablet device to replace the traditional handheld TV controller.
The notion that perhaps in a more connected world our mobile phones could replace many devices, some of which use button batteries has merit and precedent.
Equally the option of using a built in lithium polymer or long life rechargeable battery is also possible. For larger devices, eg scales, there is no excuse for not using a pair of AAA longlife alkaline cells. What price does the community place on the life of or serious injury to young children?
Yes, and the idea terrifies me. Instead of someone needing to get lucky with a key fob from 25 metres, my car would potentially be open to hacking from anywhere in the world!
If anyone decided to implement this, your concerns are legitimate. It would have to be done carefully e.g. use NFC to open the car but using your smartphone. Your phone could be hacked but you and the hackers won’t necessarily be able to open the car from anywhere in the world. You would want your phone to be secure!
The point is not really whether one person (me) can design something off the cuff on a forum on the internet that is secure but whether a company with millions of dollars can design something, make the design public, have the design independently reviewed by the best security people on the planet and then implement the design securely.
All that said, no, banking is completely different - since once compromised it can be remotely exploited by a single relatively unsophisticated actor. Even two factor authentication via a mobile app or an SMS code won’t save your bank account.
Contactless payments? Yes, could be similar. The reason that I chose NFC (approximate range 4 cm, interception range with antenna, about 10 m) is precisely to make the hacker’s job harder. One hacker in North Korea won’t be able to remote open your car. (Said hacker could carry out an amusing Denial of Service attack though, including recording the resultant stream of expletives.)
An entity with the resources of the Australian government would be able to exploit this but then they have legislated themselves a backdoor into the car anyway, no pun intended.
If we’re designing something from scratch to allow a mobile phone to open your car then it will be encrypted. However in the assumption that the mobile phone has been compromised, it hardly matters whether the communication is encrypted.
On any recent car, the keyless entry system uses encryption.
Presumably a mobile phone is capable of much stronger encryption / a more robust protocol / being updated later on if a security problem is discovered.
Yes, but I leave my phone’s NFC off precisely because of its intrinsic risks. Bluetooth has the same issues, as I think was mentioned elsewhere in these fora in relation to an adult toy. That said, I can’t find the link so will have to add it to this thread instead (NSFW!). Yes you have to be in range - but imagine being in the middle of a crowded mall and turning all nearby devices ‘on’.
One device type that I encounter frequently is the humble infrared remote control. Almost all are large enough to have space for two AAA cells, and yet some still insist on using a coin cell instead. Where this is the case, I will include it as a bad point in the product’s profile. As you say, there is no excuse.
All of mine are normal AA or AAA. However one of my remote controls is so child proof that it’s adult proof as well. It is near impossible to get open in order to change the batteries! No safety risk there. Thankfully this is something that only happens once in a blue moon.
Would AA/AAA be cheaper? I’m fairly sure that the purchase price of AA/AAA is lower than a button cell but then maybe the button cell lasts longer.
A distinct advantage with AA/AAA is that you can choose to use rechargeable batteries rather than single use. Not only cheaper in the long run, but better from a waste-reduction/recycling perspective as well.
Largely I do (which was part of the motivation for pointing out that making button cells safer is only part of the solution) - but for comparison purposes I meant a single use AA/AAA v. button cell.
Thankfully this is something that only happens once in a blue moon.