I rang them and explained I was lending my daughter this money, overall I needed $50,000 which was available, but they would not allow it after my initial transfer of $5000. I could only transfer $2000 per day from the next day. I felt and still feel I’m being held to ransome by the bank! Can they do what they like?
I suspect the bank requires multi factor authentication to do larger transfers. Is this the case?
What the bank does will be explained in the terms and conditions of service.
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On one hand the bank is supposedly looking after the customer by reducing the risk of loses due to fraud or scams.
On the other (we have needed to also make some large transfers) the banks are closing down branches and reducing counter services. The alternative to online requiring a branch supported transaction.
PS
Even with a bank Security App or RSA Key there can be account based limits for daily transfers.
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For clarity would you reveal which bank and which account you are dealing with? Of the accounts I am familiar with would it be Macquarie that has a $2,000 basic daily limit, a $10,000 limit to PayIDs, but a $100,000 limit with their authenticator? More than $100,000 and they have a form and contact.
As with any account there are daily limits. The PDS will reveal them and should be read prior to opening any account so there would be no secrets or misunderstandings.
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Another way of asking the question is: Is it legal to transfer $50,000 of your own money?
Answer: It might not be.
Clearly the bank has to abide by the law and the law says that any transfer over $10,000 has to be reported to the government, so the bank needs to be confident that it can accurately report what you are doing. The government is concerned either that you are financing terrorism or that you are laundering the proceeds of crime - and they of course have “no idea” which it is. (I put “no idea” in quotes because obviously with the amount of surveillance that goes on, they often do have some idea of what you are doing.)
That of course is on top of protecting you from scams, as others have mentioned. The pressure is on the banks, with the threat of being forced to reimburse you the $50,000 if it turns out that your “daughter” is actually “Ivana in Russia carrying out a romance scam” - and they of course have no idea which it is (unless your “daughter” is with the same bank).
Have you tried using a bank cheque?
As others have said, the exact rules vary from bank to bank.
One of my banks will allow me to set a higher limit within internet banking for a particular destination account (would easily cover $50,000 under that particular bank’s rules) provided that I fill out a form to authorise the higher limit for the particular destination. That of course is inflexible, tedious and slow - and can’t be used for any urgent payment, and you don’t make clear what the urgency is.
Otherwise for $50,000, buy a cheap Android phone, install the stupid app, authorise the transfer, then wipe the phone and sell the phone. You will make a loss on the phone transaction but not much in the overall scheme of things e.g. compare with the fee for a bank cheque.
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Yes they can. Restrictions/limitations will be in the terms and conditions associated with the account.
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I use and am happy to use multi factor authentification: a code to my phone! But this bank has created their own app which (I think) is aimed at people using their phone for financial transactions. I don’t - I always use my PC - larger screen, more familiar. Their app is more complicated - multiple phone codes, I seem to remember.
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I wanted to use the limit I had originally: $5000 per day. I was only able to use it once, then was limited to $2000 per day. Luckily I have other accounts which let me make the loan - it took a week, but my daughter is happy!
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I’ve held this account for over 20 years! They changed the rules - I’ve never wanted to move any amount larger than $5000 per day!
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If you haven’t wanted to transfer more than $5000 in the past, you wouldn’t have noticed restrictions applied when transferring online. They won’t have changed the rules, it just is they haven’t been triggered in the past. The restrictions have become more important in recent times with hijacked bank accounts - such as allowing a criminal remote access to a computer and online banking.
Our own bank one needs a security code (through the banks code generating app and prior to this, a RSA token) to increase external online transfer limits above $5,000 to a maximum of $50,000. Decreasing a code isn’t needed. This requirement has existed as long as I can remember and started when RSA tokens first became available from the bank (I estimate would be at least 14 years ago). I just checked and the bank made an announcement in 2006 of the use of RSA tokens - so, the requirement has been in place about 18 years.
For transfers greater than $50,000 (or above any online limit), requires a trip to a branch where the transfer can be carried out. Going to branch with necessary identification and documents may be an option for you.
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There are a number of ways MFA can be implemented using a smart phone that doesn’t mean one has to use a banking application on the phone itself with its little screen and no keyboard.
It could be just an SMS delivered one time pin.
It could be a smart phone implementation of the continuously changing pins such as used in RSA tokens. Physical management of RSA tokens is expensive for banks, and doing it on a phone is far cheaper.
Or it could be verification by biometrics using camera or finger print. Security is moving that way. A thing called passkeys, which some day may replace passwords.
Before getting too irritated about being forced off one’s usual way of banking online on a PC, consider what the security app on a smart phone actually does.
Our own bank won’t allow change in transfer limits without a security token code (prior to the app, token codes were obtained from a RSA token). The only way to get the token code is using their security app. There is no ability to receive the token code any other way. If one doesn’t use the security app, the transfer limit can’t be changed for online transactions.
It is also worth noting that the security app token code is needed for some external bank transfers carried out online. Without the token code from the security app, these external transfers can’t occur. When one uses the security app, it also becomes part of the MFA for login.
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Yes, but the phone app is there for MFA security?
Does it compel one to use it for management of accounts, transferring between own accounts, paying bills, scheduling future payments, etc? Those are functions of a banking app.
Providing a pin for MFA login is a security app, not a banking app.
As outlined above, its primary purpose is for increasing transfer limits and external transactions. This is outlined on the bank’s website.
Secondarily, once one signs up to using the code for such purposes, it is also automatically used for MFA when logging in.
The bank’s banking app is a separate app. The security token code app sole purpose is to give a code. It has the same function as the RSA token it replaces.
This means if one wants to bank using a smartphone, both the banking app and security token code app is needed to allow increase in transfer limits and external transfers.
It is also needed for login.
There aren’t alternatives to the token code from the bank’s secured token code app. If the token app isn’t used, increasing transfer limits and some external transfers can’t occur through online banking.
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They probably have. The AMLCTF Act was only passed in 2006 - and that’s just one aspect of it. As we all know, there has been a tsunami of data breaches and a tsunami of scams, so it would be possible to argue that if nothing has changed then the banks are being remiss.
If only there were a way to know what it actually does …
Since the OP, to my knowledge, has not said which bank is at issue here, I don’t think there can be meaningful discussion of what the rules actually are, whether they have changed, what alternatives there are for doing the transaction, …
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Yes they would have in the past…as I indicated about 18 years ago when token codes were introduced by our own bank. It ties in with the:
I was under the impression from what has been posted that the changes to the rules was recent. The requirement would have been some time ago.
It appears the frustration is a higher transfer limit was needed, and because it hadn’t been needed in the past, it was found a token code was needed to effect the change. It is likely if the transfer occurred 17 years ago, the token code would have been required. It isn’t something new.
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I think the generic frustration is: hey, I’m law-abiding and the transaction is legitimate therefore I should be able to do what I need to do without the government or the bank or anyone else getting in the way. Of course the world doesn’t work like that.
As you say, if the OP has never carried out a larger transaction before then s/he wouldn’t know either way whether the rules have changed.
If nothing else, over long periods of time, certain types of account (under various wanky bank marketing names) simply get phased out (no longer offered) and sometimes are not grandfathered - therefore the type of account mutates into a different type of account, and can therefore pick up new rules even if the rules have not in fact changed for any given type of account.
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Noted - until such time one is only guessing or possibly offering the wrong advice specific to their need. Although useful for others. Empathy for the OP’s circumstances - everyday personal business now requires one to be far more adept. We’re now forever learning how to adapt having to manage in new/different ways, relative to how it once. Especially for those who were educated in a non digital world…
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Not really. The answer is simple and has been given.
The original question was whether banks
by restricting transfers to $2000 per day after an initial transfer of $5000, if one doesn’t install their security app.
Further discussion is what some banks do. This is off topic, but interesting as it appears different banks have different solutions - some more flexible than others,
Exactly. Banks don’t know if a transaction is legitimate or not. If the shoe was on the other foot, namely transaction limits can be easily increased without any controls and the transaction was illegitimate, then where would the finger be pointing. This is why banks have introduced controls/restrictions.
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Why cant they transfer the money to your daughters account in full. Give them authorisation and daughters bank details…done and dusted
