QUT, in conjunction with the Queensland government, has been carrying out extensive research on the use of autonomous vehicles in Queensland/Australia.
It is interesting to note that one of the key findings is autonomous vehicles usage in Australia is highly reliant on high definition and detailed mapping. Volvo has also found the same in research they have undertaken, and have indicated that systems will need to have highly accurate data…such as from processed LIDAR data uploaded into vehicles.
While it shows that autonomous vehicle tachnology is possible in the future, it may have significant limitations and require significant and regular data collection for uploading into a vehicles driving system.
Challenges will also exist where there are changes to road conditions, such as temporary alignment diversion from roadworks or other such as new road openings or uogrades (i.e 2 lanes to four lanes).
I wonder who will be responsible for data collection and sharing, and who is responsible when the data is out of date or incorrect (such as not updated in a timely manner ot includes changes).
It looks like for Australia, fully driverless cars is some way off.
More expense for the road user? Will each state need to take responsibility for live updates on an hourly basis?
When a temporary traffic diversion goes up, will it first need a series of digital transponders to be set out either side of the road work or incident? Perhaps also with a system of Australian Standardised warning boards and barriers that all Self Directed vehicles recognise.
What about roadside mowing, flooded road surfaces, fallen trees and straying cattle?
It would seem far more likely we will first get a system where vehicles will only be permitted to operate autonomously on specific roadways and routes. Driver still required.
Note: More expense for the road user? Will each state need to take responsibility?
Not if we lease or sell all our main roads and motorways to Google or Uber. The toll is included in your Uber charges!
Is the Uber way of he future “It’s the UberWay or No way (footpath optional)”?
And who will be responsible for mapping of long rural/property driveways, private roads and such like. How about renote rural roads where in some areas the alignment changes after each rainfall event and the list goes on…could be very costly exercise as every road may need regular surveillance to determine if there are and changes…and where there are, updates made immediately. Could provide new jobs and employment for 1000s…
Nothing to suggest that in the fullness of time the future technology roadmap can’t solve the problem. We just need to put off the decision until such time the mapping of future technology can provide clear guidance on the solution we are all waiting for. ,
True, and the other challenge will be that all autonomous driver systems can accept standardised data from one source. This would mean car manufacturers may need to play ball to allow effective ahd efficient data collection, distribution and use.
If we look past the tradition of the automakers deciding on how things are today in the tech world.
It’s the Microsoft way or the Apple way? One clear winner there.
It’s the Google way or the Google way for search engines?
It’s the Facebook way or you don’t exist? Sorry LinkedIn.
It’s the Amazon way or the Alibaba way?
It will likely be the Uber way or the Google way with an early runner the Tesla way. A three horse race that will become a two for a possible Betamax vs VHS like arm wrestle. Quality vs cheap and cheerful?
Despite the tussle anyone other than an auto maker is a good idea. Just observing how incapable the modern car industry is at providing fully functional reliable low cost and bleeding edge in-car tech and navigation systems?
Qualification?
Tesla may know better, although their “Driver Assist” AI isn’t smart enough yet to work out when the driver is not living up to their half responsibly.
As a shiftworker in Mining I look forward to the day on my last nightshift I can tell the car to take me home 250km’s away and catch some sleep, I wonder how the system will handle coming around a corner to have a Pilot vehicle for extra wide load then a Police Car on your side of road coming straight at you so you have to drive to the Road edges to give wide load the whole road.
As to automous Haul Trucks in mining they do have a Control Room Operator overseeing the Computer controlling the group of trucks, I’m sure Automous Trains do the same. I’ve been told the system works best on closed circuits with repetitive driving cycles, doesn’t solely rely on GPS as they have onsite system to accurately place the trucks so good the roads are damaged by driving in exactly the same spot all the time so system is program to vary the driving line.
Not a problem as the AI in the autonomous robotic police escort out programs the AI in all other road vehicles. You will pull over for an upgrade or be exterminated?
Autonomous operation of transport is much simpler in a controlled environment. Factories and warehousing have been doing it for decades. The current developers are aiming for autonomy in all environments. No supervisor at a remote control panel required.
It seems likely all Autonomous and driver directed vehicles on shared roads will need to communicate with each other location specific and route details.
That might open up another concern for privacy and the collection of data that can be used for personal tracking. It’s topical, and one of many issues considered by the Victoria Transport Policy Institute (5 June 2020).
Anything autonomous relies totally on cameras, sensors and software being properly maintained, the temptation to just bridge out a faulty component and fix later is very tempting for management but can bite back like a certain Amusement Park has found.
The idea that such things can be done may seem an easy solution.
What would the risks be for any company taking such action?
What would be the personal risks of prosecution for man slaughter or greater of any person carrying out that action?
Is it wisdom to speculate or simple curiosity as to whether the actions suggested are likely or even possible?
There are many alternate examples of complex Automated Systems we use and rely on every day. All function without such fears being raised. An experienced automation or control systems professional might offer an explanation as to “why this is so”.
It will work as well as the weakest link. If one is compromised or insufficient, then it could spell a disaster for the car’s occupants or anyone nearby.
It is interesting what eome car manufacturers are saying about AVs…and it appears the technology may be overhyped at this point in time and we are many years/decades away from systems that can handle most things which could be thrown its way in all environments and situations.
It possibly will be used on low risk single styoe route type transport first…where all data is availableand is relatively static, but complex dynamic operating environments is still a long way off.
Car Manufacturers will solve the problems eventually, probably with some sort of new technology, our Subaru Forrester can’t read roads here properly due to poor line marking, we have to turn that function off to stop it warning us everytime it thinks we are going to hit a guide post. I think its mentioned earlier but with Australia moving North at 7cm /year you can’t rely on GPS long term without redoing maps regularly.
But an immature teenager can drive OK, computers will do it eventually.
If only GPS was that accurate and also quick to determine the vehicles exact location. There are alternate satellite based systems and equipment able to determine location with high accuracy and repeatability. The variations due to continental drift are calculated built in corrections. There is no need for new maps. The generations of today’s land surveyors have no difficulty finding a boundary within a centimetre or two, despite the original lot surveys being decades old. No chain, theodolite or chainee necessary.
The strategies used for autonomous vehicles?
Hopefully they are not totally reliant on satellite based systems. I’m aware of numerous examples where consumer accessible GPS fails to function.
As to the industry view points on autonomous vehicles.
There’s a wealth of good, average and low content value information available on the web.
Just one source that might inspire further enquiry?
Note:
Few sources consider the potential social impacts fully. Outcomes such as improved road safety and the need for fewer motor vehicles are promoted as positives. No one is talking about the impacts on employment, or vehicle costs. One vision is that in the future private car ownership will be extinct. Consumers will be transitioned to a market and business model controlled by one or more monopolies, directly or indirectly. In which instance all roads will transition to be under the control of the same autonomous technology owners.
They had one in a park in Ipswich, Queensland. It went either walking pace or slower and hesitated when any pedestrian got close. I walked (faster) passed it even though it was full of ‘adventure seekers’. It may be an alternative to a wheel chair, but an efficient public transport system?
This speed limitation is partly due to public perceptions and safety with this “new” technology. I think as the bugs are ironed out that speeds will increase. Currently if a person has great mobility issues even if the shuttle is slow it may be a boon. Once it achieves a fast or faster than fast walking pace speed I’m sure it will be more attractive to users.
Cars had to have a lantern and flag bearing attendant when they first started motoring along so no more than a walking pace even though they could have exceeded that pace, but times have changed as they will for this style of autonomous conveyance.
Yes, we once used to play on the old locomotives, traction engines and council road rollers placed in parks. At least up until the child safety protection police decided encouraging any forms of risk taking by kids on such items was unhealthy and a legal liability.
Assuming the example mentioned was not a plaything or future monument for the park, I was wondering?
Infrastructure Partnerships Australia - ‘Automated Vehicles, Do we know which road to take?’
has covered many of the discussion points raised in our community topic. It’s an Australian perspective.
It might offer some clues as to why the observed novelty/trial operating in the park was so cautious.
RenewEconomy driving partner TheDriven recently published the following article. It provides a great over view of the challenges, pathway and some pointed observations. The discussion centred on the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), 6 level model. This maps the development phases of autonomous driving. The discussion captures succinctly many of the discussion points from previous community posts.
P.S.
My version of the article came with a header of a promoted link for a charity raffle of a Ford Mustang. I’m flattered and amused by Renew’s and TheDriven’s attachment to such a desirable vehicle.
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