"Why I hate using the supermarket self checkout"

But of course:

If enough starve, I guess the question of jobs becomes moot.

I have some problems with the Forbes article.

The claim that capitalism ā€œhas failed to improve human well-being at scale.ā€ is not supported by evidence just assumed. I agree it has provided great wealth for some and that the distribution of the growth of wealth has been greatly skewed towards the top end but all have benefited to some degree.

Also the claim that capitalism is the reason for huge environmental damage does not pass even quick scrutiny, the centralised control economies have all had pollution problems, loss of species and environmental damage. The problem is with governments of all kinds in that they favour the short term over the long and growth over almost everything else. It isnā€™t just capitalist societies who have millions saying to their masters that they want more now and as long as you do it we care little how. The principle of intergenerational equity is breached more than honoured around the world.

Back to the checkout. Once people of modest ability were farm labourers, then they were mill workers, then on the production line, lately at call centres and the checkout. What next? Is there any next? The assumption that because new jobs have been continually created to replace old over the last 200 years then this will always be true in the future only needs to be wrong once. There is a distinct parallel with the assumption that limitless growth has always been possible and desirable in the past and therefore it will be in the future.

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Enjoyed your musing, but regarding capitalism, it depends on the metrics/values used.

If one goes back a few decades a family could have a comfortable life with a single wage earner, eg what is often called the traditional family unit. Compare that with today. Are ā€˜weā€™ better off today or were we better off in a previous time where one could keep their heads above water while maintaining a decent standard of living? The mega wealthy have acquired $billions while the low end have acquired bigger $debts and poverty - noting poverty is relative, but.

Today an article stated 22 men have more wealth than 326 million women in Africa. I can only assume those 326 million women might be better off than they were a few decades ago, but I can be fairly certain those 22 men are living well and not without.

Some versions of capitalism and Christianity that are in vogue today can be paraphrased as ā€˜God and the system rewards those who take and are best at takingā€™ and the discredited trickle down affect where everyone supposedly wins something even if not much, is that if you feed a horse enough oats some will eventually be dropped along the road for the scavengers to enjoy.

I know you are familiar with the characterisations to the above, and this is not intended to be argumentative, just the counterpoint to parts of your post from a differing viewpoint.

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Going off topic for a postā€¦It is far more complex than comparing past with the future.

Current expectations are vastly different to those in the past. How many families today have one car, donā€™t have extravagant holidays, donā€™t expect every known mod con, repair rather than throw out things that could be repaired, eat at home for almost all meals etc etc. Not many. Over the generations due to increased wealth and standard of living, Australians have a very different expectation on their lives. Such has increased consumerism which comes at a cost.

If families from decades ago had the same expectations as today, it is quite possible that there would be a requirement for more than one income earner per family homeā€¦to sustain the expected lifestyle.

Edit: should have also said that animosity towards the wealthy has been around for centuries and has been the cause of uprisings and subject of tales. Today most wealth is created by possibly by good fortune (taking substantial personal risks at the right time) or through hard work. Centuries ago weath was very much a ā€˜rightā€™ or entitlement depending on what family one was borne into. If you were borne into a rich family, it almost guaranteed a rich life.

For some, nothing matters but possessions in the here and now. Particularly in the West, weā€™ve managed to take far more than our fair share, so weā€™re OK (for now).

Sadly, those from whom weā€™ve taken are not so OK. Western nations plundered Somali fish stocks. Somali fishermen then turned to piracy (yes, I know they had a historical tradition of that). People have to survive. The plunder is happening in many other fisheries.

More broadly, oceans and agriculture are increasingly impoverished. This will come back to bite us. Global warming and the recent bush fires are harbingers.

The gist of the article is solid. Capitalism has run unfettered for too long. Itā€™s not sustainable.

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Iā€™ll not respond as it is going well off topic, except to accept your point is correct so long as no underlying ā€˜happiness factorā€™ is included in the discussion.

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A new twist from Woolies.

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Per the news item:
Customers can then go around the store scanning items on their phone as they put them into their bags before tapping off at a designated kiosk, shaving minutes off shopping times.

Errr! So itā€™s quicker to individually take your phone out of your pocket or handbag each time you pick up an item, wait for the app to wake up, focus on the bar code, offer the details, and the wait for you to hit a confirmation. Move onto the next item after returning phone to pocket etc.

Iā€™ll back an experienced checkout operator every time to be ten times faster. The only waiting time is the length of the checkout queue. Who has control over that!:rage:

It looks like a cunning plan to make shoppers spend more time in the aisles. Any chance each purchase in aisle will be accompanied by 100 supermarket suggestions of ā€˜specials, just for youā€™ and reminders itā€™s at least two days since you purchased that packet of crisps. Surely you have eaten them and need to restock.

No cynicism. Just dread and fear of creating another opportunity to play with the mind of the consumer? :thinking:

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Are you in the head of Woolies genius marketing? You seem on to them. As it tracks you through the aisles it can be expected to eventually offer some customised pricing, but only if you grab it before you move 1m in any direction.

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Woolworths self serve checkouts suck. They have most of them card only so an artificial queue is created by those wanting to pay cash. At least at Coles the one machine can be used for either. You cannot even get cash out on a card only machine. They are a complete waste of space.

Where is the Woollies you are referring to?

Our nearest Woollies only has 6 of the old style cash & card terminals whilst the next Woollies has almost half of the new card only terminals with the rest the old style cash & card ones.

The card only and the cash & card terminals are the same as Coles except Woollies card only ones are green whilst Coles card only ones are red.

The only problem I have is that the other Woollies stop access to half of the terminals unless they have 2 employees in the self serve area so as to reduce theiving, but that leaves only 1 card only terminal operating.

Wadalba NSW.

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Iā€™ve often wondered (not really, of course they did but there was no proof) whether the camera in the checkout screen was covertly taking photos or recording ā€¦

Tonight I noticed the image from the camera is proudly displayed at the top of the checkout screen at Woolworths ā€¦ personally I think this is going a little too far, by approximately ā€˜a lotā€™.

I guess there is a market opportunity for privacy stickers? :wink: or just another reason to wear that covid mask ā€¦

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This is a digital mirror that has begun being trialed in some Woolies stores. Itā€™s simply a live feed that is not recorded and not stored. Itā€™s based on research that indicates people are less likely to try and steal while they are looking at themselves.

The CCTV in stores shows more details than the digital mirror.

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It seems more like a ā€˜digital one more reason to punch the screenā€™ :slight_smile: I can say, my anger management is at its lowest ebb at the Woolworths self-no-service checkout - there is only one place on the planet that is worse, Coles, but I never go there as Iā€™d like my vehicle to be in the same condition as I left it when it comes to conveying my purchases homeward ā€¦ That said, the screens are very tough.

It would probably be better directed to the scales so it could ā€˜expectā€™ the ā€˜unexpected item in bagging areaā€™ the ninth time that twelve kilos was removed and the exact weight of one Woolworths bag was put there after initially saying ā€˜Iā€™ve brought my own bagsā€™ ā€¦ that, and I am very skeptical about the ā€˜not recordingā€™ and/or when it will start recording without so much as a by-your-leave :wink: (it would be a typical soft target - introduce something, with various statements about what it is or isnā€™t doing right then, and down the track just turn those things around - we never said we wouldnā€™t, we just said we werenā€™t at the time ā€¦ weasel-words and lawyer-speak, but I repeat myself ā€¦).

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You forgot to mention the likeness to a petri dish as the faithful swarm the scanners. Although with social distancing in place this pet hate of mine is less of a challenge. That the system is not designed to handle a large trolley load, every item needs to be triple handled, and for each to be bagged. :rage:

Enough said. I refuse to be reprogrammed into doing it the Woolies or Coles way. On the rare occasion it becomes necessary I still need the check out attendant most times, because their system does not work the way I do.

Does this reflect on the type of customer Woolies and Coles most desire to encourage? Itā€™s a disturbing thought?

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Exactly - only three people can be at the bakery line inside at one time, only every third seat at the doctors surgery can be sat in, etc - but they close 4 out of 16 checkouts and then let the festival of trolley begin - crowded far in excess of other businesses with the added touch of an attendant spreading the ā€˜condimentsā€™ to each screen when it demands that assistance is required ā€¦ and not a santising wipe or mask in sight. I do wonder whether this is still better than having a checkout operator handling each product but of course making the customer pack them immediately after scanning - insanity knows no bounds, but money talks as loudly as it ever has.

For anyone who missed Woolworths take on social distancing - Covid-19 Shopping: physical separation and safety issues - #426 by draughtrider

I think you said it perfectly - itā€™s the kind of customer Woolworths and Coles would reprogramme us to be.

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Surprise, after all, is one of the chief weapons ā€¦

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Most of us are right handed - so why are those machines left handed? Every time, i put my things in the wrong place.

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The single most important aspect of the machine (for the shops) is right handed - the payment terminal.

Not withstanding their polite (<-sarcasm), loud (<-no sarcasm needed) and consistent feature to declare an ā€˜unaccounted item in the bagging areaā€™ requiring a staff member to clear it, even if your bag just shifts a bit.

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