Welcome to the forum this sunny 2024.
Not necessarily, those were the days before country houses had pressure-activated pumps or in some cases electricity. I know many people on tank water and not one is gravity fed.
Is this is general comment or are you after a low pressure machine yourself?
Well in my humble opinion people who rely on a
Pressure pump may regret it when the power goes down, particularly when/if a bushfire is on the horizon.
(Ask me how I know!)
Yes I would like to find a decent machine that can cope well with about 13’ to 20’ head. ('Old money sorry!)
Not mad about pressure pumps with the constant cutting in and out all the time with water usage.
And you can count me as one (and also plenty I know) who rely on a gravity feed header tank supply)
This is about 0.4 to 0.7 bar (6-10 psi), which is very low pressure.
Looking online, it appears that most machines require at least 20psi. Samsung state:
Water pressure less than 20 psi can cause water valve failure or prevent the water valve from shutting off completely
This means for water pressures less than 20psi, there is a risk the valve won’t shut off water causing the machine to overfill (or automatically pump out to prevent overfilling), thus overflowing causing potential damage to the machine and/or laundry area/house.
With our previous machine, a F&P top loader, we could manually fill the machine using buckets from our rainwater tank, before we had a pump installed. This might be an option for extremely low water pressures - to fill it manually for wash and rinse cycles. It will be inconvenient and one may need to confirm a particular top load washing machine will accept manually filled water (doesn’t automatically pump out the water) for both wash and rinse cycles. One needs to check the lid can be lifted during rinse filling. Care needs to be taken when filling to ensure the drum isn’t overfilled. It may not be a satisfactory solution for those on tank water as top loaders consume significantly more water than an equivalent front loader.
You won’t be fighting fires too well with such low pressure as you have, you would be better off putting a petrol firefighter on your tank.
With a decent pump this is not a problem for me.
Anyway back to washing machines. The problem with modern ones is they are computerised and with low pressure the processor complains that it is taking too long to fill and throws an error. You need to find either an older model that doesn’t do that or a modern one that is set up to avoid it. I am sorry I can’t name any.
Yes mate, of course we have a petrol powered fire-fighting pump. Plus, I can use this as a transfer pump to refill the header tank from the main storage tank if the power goes down, but I have a small electric pump to do this anyway - I pump up about once every 10 - 14 days. General tap pressure is perfectly adequate. Seems there is no good option for a washing machine then. I suppose I could plumb in a small electric pump to switch on manually when we’re doing the washing. BTW, buckets, one pair of hands, and gravity feed water saved my house in the '83 bushfires.
Much so-called ‘progress’ is actually taking us backwards in so many ways.
What about all the tank-water houses on flat land before pressure activated pumps?
They had to put up with the head from the bottom of the tank to the tap which was often only a few feet. Also there was the limit to the size of tanks that had to be shallow to fit on a tank stand above the taps but be below the gutter, often they were only 5000 l. Trying to have a shower was often impractical as the rose would have been as high as the tank. This was all in the days of 3 or 3.5 m ceilings, now we mostly have 2.4 m so these problems would be worse.
Today 20,000 l tanks are common and you can have 100,000 l if you want to because they can sit on the ground due to having pumps. And the cost of tanks is reduced as no stand is required. And your washing machine works with no problem.
I am looking forward to when the progress of batteries becomes affordable and then the water will be on even if the mains power goes off.
For our home progress means a variable speed constant pressure pump (Grundfos). No cutting in and out with fluctuations in water pressure. No need to readjust the hot and cold water in the shower as we had to with the old Davey.
What we have also learnt is few modern appliances including mixer taps and shower heads through to the dishwasher and WMC are suitable for very low water pressure. Progress for us living outside the burbs on tank water - We can have the same range of product choices as any one living in a big city without concerns they will not function on lower pressures. Having lived in several houses with water from a stand mounted tank there is no way we would go back.
Do we loose power? - definitely.
In which instance our small modern generator is more than capable of keeping the fridge, lights and house pump running. One day it will be simply a choice of plugging into the BEV battery or Hybrid Solar PV. More progress - or different choices?
There are still some twin tubs on the market, manually filled and manually managed. There are two on appliancesonline.
One might not be what you hoped for but should meet needs regarding gravity fed water pressure.
Yes…" Different choices" as you say Mark. (Oh BTW thanks for the Welcome to the Community. Much appreciated).
We are not very keen on buying ‘stuff’. To us, old things often have more character, work for longer, and are repairable. We like ‘em! Yes a small genny would be handy, but my ol’ Kero pressure lamps and the camping gas cooker get us through power cuts just fine. I dread the day when our grandchildren will have to cope with all the unrepairable but otherwise perfectly good cars and appliances. With the enormous wasted resources involved in their manufacture, and the mountains of toxic used Lithium batteries to be coped with.
Our x2 20 year old cars do the job very well with plenty of performance, comfort and economy.
But no screens, collision cameras, parking assist etc… (Really how could we survive without them !!!)
Water pressure from our gravity-feed header tank is as good as most suburban houses. Mixer taps, shower, dishwasher etc are all perfectly fine, it’s just the Washing Machine that is a problem.
(BTW We ain’t ‘over-the-top’ greenies, and certainly wouldn’t want to be ‘virtue-signalling’ - to us it’s just being rational).
The machine is a family hand-me-down so we don’t have a User Manual (It’s a Simpson Espirit 550), so I need to find out if I can clean inlet and/or pump filters, maybe that will improve the flow.
(Sorry to be so long-winded!)
Simpson Esprit 550.
Look at SIMPSON WASHING MACHINE USER MANUAL Pdf Download | ManualsLib
Sometimes the same source can also offer service manuals which can also help with how to remedy faults.
We did have a Simpson Eziset 550 until last year, a later version? I recollect another also worked OK on the farm off the tank.
As an aside:
We have a recycled 19th century very well seasoned all timber cottage. We’ve moved on from kero lanterns to LED and batteries when needed. The lesser of two evils and less chance of burning down unintended the home.
If it was you would not have problems with the washing machine.
The Australian Standard is 500 kPa (51 m head). Sydney Water says pressure is between 15 and 65 and averages 52m, other capital cities are similar. Obviously some places in Oz will be less than 51m that but very few on town water would be anything like yours at 4 to 6 m.
Here’s the ‘thing’. When was that 500 kPa ‘standard’ established? And by whom? I’d bet that it was long before we realised that water is our most precious, diminishing resource. Probably in the 1950’s. I’d bet the figure was based on something like ‘How long does it take to fill a big bath’, and established by the water authority who thought it great that people consume an enormous amount of ‘free’ water.
Times HAVE changed!
It isn’t a standard, it is the maximum standing water pressure for reticulated water, used for design purposes.
Appliances, plumbing etc need to be designed so they can operate up to 500kPa. If water pressure is above 500kPa, it may be outside the design limits leading to failure or damage.
Most appliances, such as dishwashers, fridges, washing machines or plumbing fittings, such as taps aren’t designed for pressures above 500kPa and using them above 500kPa will void warranties or seen as misuse under the Australian Consumer Guarantee. If one has pressures above 500kPa, pressure reducers should be installed.
Well that’s a fairly useless piece of information in regard to the previous discussion isn’t it?
We were discussing the lower pressures that washing machines require to function well weren’t we?
Maximum pressures have no bearing on it at all. What’s the point? I’ve been saying that our ‘low head’ pressure is similar to a ‘normal’ suburban pressure. Voiding warranties because you’re operating at 500 kPa has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion has it?
You are correct, however, manufacturers design their products to be able to handle expected reticulated water pressures (which is a maximum of 500kPa). On the flip side don’t design their products to meet usage on very low water pressures, less than that which could be expected for almost all consumers either on reticulated water or pumped water systems.
Having very low water pressures is what would be called ‘out of spec’ for design purposes.
It would be unreasonable for manufacturers to design products for very low water pressures, no differently to expecting the same manufacturers to design products for very high (>500kPa) pressures. Manufacturers have design specifications for their products and can nominate ranges where the product can be used. This can include for things like voltages, temperatures, altitudes, water pressure etc.
My point was that reticulated water pressure in towns and cities is in practice much more than you have, why is not relevant. This was in reply to your claim that what you have is as good as most suburban house. You seem to be hinting that there must be some other cause for the problem. There isn’t some other problem because your pressure isn’t similar to suburban houses regardless of standards and the problem is that isn’t enough to run a modern machine.
Yes.
So you are back to three choices:- wash by hand, find an old washing machine that runs on very low pressure or put in a pump.
The Simpson EZISET models were specified with a minimum water pressure requirement of 50kPa. They may have worked with less based on how the farm tank was originally set up. The internet suggests the model range (various capacity) is no longer in production. One supplier offers the following as an alternative also with a 50kPa minimum water pressure requirement.
Memories of filling the electric boiler and buckets to take for a hot water bath, the kettle or kitchen sink from a house tank (20-30kPa) are well etched in the mind. Filling with quality tank water one cannot be in a hurry.
The 4th is a twin tub. Not automatic but meets the criteria of a washing machine suitable for low pressure.
Or possibly one made for the caravan and camping or live on board boating fans (house boats etc). Not within my experience but perhaps there are others out there who can respond with first hand knowledge. Some appear to be manual fill. Others integrated. 12V DC through to 230V AC choices.
‘4.6KG Mini Portable Washing Machine for Caravans
Or
Sphere 3.5kg Auto Mini Washing Machine 12V Stldc-35C
P.S.
I’ve had two twin tubs. The laundry had one of those double jointed long armed mixers that could also reach the WMC etc.
In keeping with the theme of gravity fed low pressure tank water, one might look to how it once was - a boiler and stick (electric or wood fired), mangle and moulded concrete tubs. The concrete option all the fashion decades before it became on trend for kitchen bench tops. It’s how my gran washed.
In response to
You asked previously
To which @phb supplied an answer, while it is all a bit off topic it is not far off as the matter of what machines are designed for, impacts the choices available. I doubt that your pressure is similar to town pressures being gravity fed unless you have it mounted about 50 m higher than the house. The other answer would be to use a pump to supply constant pressure. If you do choose to have a pump rather than source a low pressure machine, then the sensor or similar pressure control system may need adjustment to bring the pressure to a suitable level to not exceed the upper working limit.
It won’t matter what pressure is available in regards to water usage in the machine or in fact in most usage around the house. If pressure of supply is higher then things will fill more quickly, however the usage will still be similar. A 60 litre tub will still only hold 60 litres, a 2 litre bottle will still only hold 2 litres…they will fill more quickly and the same will apply to a toilet in that the cistern will hold only what it has been designed to hold. Low pressure will mean that it just takes longer to fill, what may be affected is when hosing as the flow amount over time will be greater under high pressure. These circumstances where it is desired to have lower flow amounts, having the outside taps plumbed away from the high pressure flow would be advised, e.g. a second spigot off the tank to the low flow piping…
