Underperforming NBN - did NBN run out of money when they rolled NBN to our area?

From 2014

So if it is NBN Co supplying the nbn™ connection then it is over the NBN Co owned network. As far as I know Optus do not own a copper telephone cable system in Australia but they do own a substantial Fibre Optic network, they used the Telstra Corp’s copper cables for telephony or ADSL services.

What type of connection do you have there, is it FTTN or FTTC? These are the only other 2 Copper type nbn™ connections available. FTTN is notorious for slow connections. FTTN does not normally have a box on the house, it uses the old copper wire from the pit to the house. The wire in the pit then runs back to the Node. FTTC has a unit in the pit or on the pole and then it is the copper that runs into the house to the modem. HFC usually has a box on the house then inside a Arris Cable modem to which is attached the household router that connects all the household devices.

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Hi grahroll,
Thanks for all the research you have done regarding this topic. I have done lots of research too, trying to get decent service. I am only able to reply because it’s the weekend when there is less data traffic. I found this on the nbn website:

An nbn ™ Hybrid Fibre Coaxial (HFC) connection is used in circumstances where the existing ‘pay TV’ or cable network can be used to make the final part of the nbn ™ access network connection. In this circumstance an HFC line will be run from the nearest available fibre node, to your premises.

Unfortunately for us the existing cable is copper and lord only knows where the node is. Our neighbour on one side has Optus and has no issue, the other neighbour is like us, intermittent service.

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That suggests you should go down the street and take a poll. If the premises to your left have no worries, and yours and all to the right have intermittent service that is some evidence to complain to your RSP to complain to the NBN who owns the cable. While improbable it could be a simple connection in the cable.

BTW, the old TV cable is copper coax, not to be confused with copper pairs used in PSTN phone service of yore as well as FTTN ‘service’.

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If you do, also ask for their RSP, just in case it is a localised RSP rather than cable issue.

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@PeteCabbie, I am confused about your broadband connect method to your house.
Is it coax cable from common street run to your house, or twisted pair from an ex-Telsta street pit?
The former would be the old Optus Vision HFC coax strung along power poles with a coax tap to your house, and the later would be twisted pair copper from a node point (FTTN), or a tap from optical fibre along your street pit using twisted pair for the final link (FTTC).

No that is just a simplified explanation by NBN Co, the copper coax cable from your house joins the copper coax cable that runs down your street which then most likely joins another copper coax cable that has multiple street cables joining it, this last copper cable in the link is the one that goes back to the fibre node. The diagram that shows the copper cable from your house joining directly to the node is just a very simplified diagram and could even be misleading to those who view it.

What you may see at points on the street copper cable are power boosters that enhance the signal strength as copper does not carry a signal very far without the signal being boosted…for standard network cable the ‘unpowered’ length is 100 metres normally before it must be boosted to carry any decent signal. Coaxial cable depending on shielding and wire gauge used would be something similar.

Where your cable from the house joins the street cable is also often a little box that protects the joins from weather elements and adds support for the length of cable run.

Possibility 1: The person getting good connection may have the equipment which is noisy and so they get connection but as this street cable is shared by everyone then everyone else gets poor connectivity.

Possibility 2: The connection at the Street Coaxial cable to your house cable may not be good, not where it enters the box on your wall but right back at the street connection. As also suggested by @PhilT.

Possibility 3: It isn’t the person who is getting good connection as they may be connecting when the culprit connection is offline and you may be connected when the problem connection is active. Thus the problem could be a currently unidentified household.

This problem requires investigation by NBN Co as they own the cabling, HFC cabling with this issue can be extremely hard to trace where the problem is as this is shared between so many households it can be a matter of luck to find the problem premises or spot.

You have to report the fault through your internet provider who then pass the fault onto NBN Co. I don’t believe this is an issue with your equipment (due to number of replacements and having the same issues this is a very unlikely scenario). You need to be clear with your ISP (internet service provider) that you think this is an external issue somewhere on the street cabling as at least one other household in your Street is having the same issue.

You could do a Street poll (as suggested by others here ie @PhilT and @phb) before the ISP contact to see if larger numbers are having similar problems and if they are this will strengthen your case.

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Thanks PhilT,
It’s worth a go.

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Hi Gregr, It is the Optus coax on the power poles.
Cheers

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Hi graholl,
Thanks for all of your assistance. I’m doing a street poll now. I have asked my provider if it could be a cable issue and they do a check from a facility in the Philippines. I’m told there is no issue with the line. A check on my equipment is then performed from the same facility and again no issue is found.
Cheers

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Then if there is no cable issue it is more than likely that someone’s household connection or equipment is causing the issue on the cable network, it can just be a single household who cause the issue for all the other users that share your Street Cable. It is as I said be a difficult thing to track down which household or households are causing the interference.

This is a difficult situation to resolve, it is often just luck that the problem is found and made good.

If you have a ‘good’ response to your poll, good in that those polled have similar or the same issues you might want to have them all complain to their ISPs also including a list all the addresses of the properties affected. You all will be best to specify this is a “Speed Issues Incident” not a fault and specifically mention “Speed degradation”.

If no positive outcome then you may attempt to complain directly to the NBN Co using the phone number 1800 687 626 and make sure you get your complaint number from them (again encourage all those affected to do the same). You should all list the issues on NBN Co’s Facebook page NBN Australia

If you don’t hear anything from NBN Co after a reasonable period then escalate your issue to the following email address NBNComplaintEscalations@nbnco.com.au quoting your reference number and request a Case Manager. Also CC AMCA into the email using the following email address info@acma.gov.au. You should also separately send details of your issue to ACMA (quote your NBN Co Complaint number as well) to that same email address.

Then if no satisfactory outcome make a combined/simultaneous complaint to the TIO, again quote your NBN Co complaint numbers as well.

and finally if nothing is resolved contact your Federal MP and State Senators advising of the issues as well as the Minister/s for Communication and the Shadow Minister for Communication. Quote your TIO and NBN Co complaint numbers and details.

You can also contact A Current Affairs, 7:30 Report, 60 Minutes, your local Newspapers, your State Newspapers, you could also search for and contact journalists interested in the nbn™ and it’s problems.

Again I stress that the cable that runs down your Street is no longer Optus owned or controlled. Optus undoubtedly installed the cable many years ago, but now the cable is owned by NBN Co who purchased it from Optus as part of the MTM NBN network plan. And it was used by the MTM NBN plan of the LNP as one of the pillars of the nbn™ network. So to achieve better speeds, NBN Co made repairs to the cable network and installed new hardware to support this. The cost blowout from all the work that had to be done on HFC was enormous, NBN CO seriously debated dropping the HFC network because of the additional cost.

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ACMA seems to be a black home when it might not look good on the topic. I sent an inquiry on 3 Sep 2020 and never had a reply/advice beyond the auto-reply with a ticket number.

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They are typical of many of the large oversight Departments eg ASIC, APRA in that they are often seen as wallpaper over gaping holes. While they may not respond there is no harm in contacting, it may even elicit a response so no harm done.

It is probably more important in that when they are queried by Federal Pollies (if that happens) they may be pricked to undertake further action. They also keep stats so they can issue reports and occasionally take action, so again no harm done. The MTM NBN fiasco is propped up by a determined L&NP backbone, any change or improvement only occurs when they need to save their necks from the relegation choice of voters and supporters. So every effort to make them respond in a ‘positive’ manner is a hopeful effort not a promised outcome one.

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Wow, The ACCC has found their fasle teeth.

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Must be an election looming is my best guess

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Another article.

It does not fix the broken NBN for the Australians who can’t get 50 Mbps or faster services.

Whether the ACCC can encourage the NBN to provide a thorough a assessment of capabilities, the linked report indicates approx 25% of NBN customers are still on 12 Mbps or 25 Mbps speed tiers. This includes Satellite and Fixed Wireless customers.

Bubbles:
Reality, the power to deliver a fairer outcome is with Government, and not with the ACCC. It’s a bit like a war time rationing scenario where every one has been promised access to loafs of bread. 3 out of 4 Aussies can buy at least one $2 loaf every day. The other 1 in 4 can only buy a half or or a quarter of a loaf per day. But it still costs $2 for the half or a quarter loaf, a part ration. There is also no way the 1 in 4 can get access to buy a whole loaf.

To be fairer should RSP’s and the NBN be required to charge no more than half price the price of 50 Mbps for 25 Mbps services and a quarter for 12 Mbps? Satellite would be almost free on that scale. The ACCC could look to the solution as an enforceable undertaking. This is assuming the whole of the nation accepts the NBN is an essential community supported service and not as it now intended a profit centre for private enterprise.

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and NBNCo itself, no matter how spun.

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Escalation, sadly, appears to be the only option.

I had a similar saga with NBNCo. My ADSL line had regular problems, so when I received a letter advising that NBN would be rolled out in my area, and there was an 18 mth window to sign up, I jumped in. Once it was available. I called Internode to upgrade to a 50 Mbit service. They said "it doesn’t appear that NBN will support that in your case. Anything beyond 12 Mbit is not showing up as supported. I asked various technical questions, but Internode, as a retailer, only had the scant information provided by NBN.

Since it was still an improvement, and in the hope my internet would be more reliable (i.e. that the wire faults from the longer ADSL wires would be reduced by having a node somewhere closer), I signed up. The cost was the same, save for a new VDSL modem.

The FTTN service was worse than ADSL. When it rained, I had endless dropouts. Uploads were random events. and so on. At one point, I had no NBN for three weeks, and I had to prove that the fault was not my brand new high-end modem; the wire connecting the modem to the house phone circuit; the house circuit itself…I had the house wiring bypassed by direct outlet adjacent to the NBN entry point, obtained a two alternative VDSL modems - both brand new; and so on. The same problems remained. Throughout this, Internode was fantastic. They replaced the brand new modem with another, even though I was adamant there was nothing wrong with the original. I also asked someone at Internode what the split was between problems with FTTN; FTTP; and HFC connections - having at least some high-end data comms and IT management background, I know how these things work. I was advised that virtually all of the problem call are with FTTN - what a surprise.

A couple of months after the long outage, I received a letter from an NBN contractor, advising that they required access to my property for NBN service upgrades, as fibre was to run along my frontage. I called the information line, and was advised that I would have an FTTP connection when the project finished.

So, the FTTP box was duly connected to my house, awaiting cutover. I called the information number again, and was advised that their part in the project was complete, but it would require NBN to connect the the back end to network terminating equipment (this is normal - the individual house fibre runs need to connect via a network multiplexor of some kind). I called Internode, to find out, but their connection to NBNCo did not provide such information. NBN had a help line, so I called this, only to speak with someone basically following a scripted response…I had earlier learned from one of the NBN sub-contractors that my node was approx 1700 metres from my house, well beyond the claimed 900 mtr max for FTTN, which is a limit with built-in obsolescence.

One day, I was visiting my next door neighbour, who told me how good the NBN is. I asked him what he had, but he didn’t know. I took one look and saw the modem and battery backup unit and realised it was connected to FTTP. He had been contacted by his ISP, and moved from ADSL to FTTP. Everything suddenly worked.

I contacted Internode, and no matter what they tried, the NBN system replied “Already connected to NBN”. They escalated internally, and sent notes to NBN on my behalf, to no avail.

I wrote a letter to the CEO of NBN, asking for it to be delegated to someone with the capacity to make a business decision rather than follow a script, along with a summary of the stupidity of the situation. Within days, I had someone on the phone from NBN (I can’t recall his title), who offered his most profound apologies and explained exactly what would be required - I needed to disconnect my NBN service, which might be out for a day (as if I’d notice, given how bad the FTTN had been) and then reconnect. That would automatically generate an FTTP connection request.

These corporations have codified all of their responses to customer problems, so that their minions don’t make any “executive” decisions. It builds in inflexibility, thoughtlessness, and ineptitude - and extreme frustration for anyone on the receiving end of their “service”. They care not a jot how much of our time they waste.

On the plus side, FTTP is brilliant. Glass fibre is vastly better to run through often wet ground than wires that have been broken and joined many times over, and have insulation material that degrades and cracks over time. Although I knew that long before this debacle.

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Hi CaptJack,

Can you tell me which town or part of a city you live in please? We’re with Internode (many years) and I agree that they;re terrific, but our FTTN is rubbish too – I’ve paid for a 50Mbps service since we were connected and we achieve the giddying speed of around 15Mbps most of the time. I won’t take a cheaper service because I’ll never be able to afford to pay for another 50Mbps if I then had to switch back… they’re all at least $20-30 more costly.

I’d just be interested to know which general locality you’re in… we’re on the western outskirts of sunny Townsville.

Welcome to the Community @Lisha,

I moved your post and @CaptJack’s original into this somewhat related existing topic about underperforming NBN connections. The topic I moved it from was about cutting through Westpac’s complaints system. While @CaptJack’s post was certainly about cutting through complaints it is really about NBN not Westpac nor fraud, nor a financial provider/service in the context discussed.