The cost of FTTC

[mark_m]

@robynne.burchell

Needless to say I am disgusted with the quality of the connection, this morning I did a speed test and 3.7 down and .86 up. This is surely the only business in the country that people in rural areas are forced onto that provides a deeply inferior service to customers.

Unfortunately for many FW has been a poor outcome. The NBN Co had said it needs more money $800M to address current FW performance issues.

Our Federal Govt is refusing to provide more funding to the NBN Co, which will now seek an external loan of up to $2B extra to pay for this FW work and other expenses due to delays on the program, mainly with the HFC roll out.

The NBN Co is not providing much public information about individual service areas. It appears impossible to find out what the NBN Co is planning or acting on for any area tower/service.

It does’t address you issues, or those of any one on a congested FW service. I’ve been making greater use of mobile data, which can be an option if you have good coverage and lower usage, although many NBN FW service areas also have poor mobile access.

P.s.
I started sharing my NBN concerns with our local Federal Member, because only the Govt of the day can change the direction of the NBN.

I know that the promised FW may not come to us because there is currently no approved tower site. There is a simple expediency of not delivering FW, and offering a small number of us satellite, to which we will mostly say no! I will stay on ADSL at no added cost to the NBN as will the small number of neighbours down the next road. The NBN Co will tick a box and save another $1M in money it does not have to spend!

[robynne.burchell]

NBN co has no impetus to fix anything, given that ACMA has decided that 2 up is an acceptable speed, this is a massive con being perpetrated on consumers.

[mark_m]

@robynne.burchell

a massive con being perpetrated on consumers.

It’s up to the Government. (Which ever one we choose?)

The NBN Co has previously stated that 6Mbps is it’s target minimum. That’s only half the speed of our ADSL based service today.

Choice has run some very effective consumer campaigns for change. Hopefully we will not need another one?

[grahroll]

@ferij49

What I didn’t mention is that the NBN fibre cable was underground at our front gate

My mother is on FW but the FO cable runs through the property to the school behind our land (past the house and up the paddock). Sensible? Worthwhile? good planning? efficient?

@mark_m

We were recently advised that customers in our area on ADSL in a FW area could keep the service

This came out of the recent ACMA review and has been somewhat publicly addressed by the Minister & the Review.

https://www.minister.communications.gov.au/minister/mitch-fifield/news/telecommunications-universal-service-guarantee

From the report “As at September 2018, Telstra provided approximately 4.9 million retail fixed voice services nationally, largely in fulfilment of its USO obligations. Of these, we estimate approximately 600,000 services (12%) were provided to premises located outside the NBN fixed line footprint. In addition, there were
approximately 235,000 ADSL broadband services still in operation on Telstra’s copper network outside
the NBN fixed line footprint.3”

Government backs USG delivery via NBN and Telstra

@phb

Do rural people have an expectation of the same level of services at the same cost which exist in towns and cities?

The cost of USO, USG, and NBN has been/was always going to be a shared cost of all consumers where those in larger centres pay more than the real cost of provision so that those in more remote areas have/had the costs subsidised by the larger centres.

Again this was looked at in the review and the USO obligations/requirements and the answer was a solid YES “In this context, we are proposing that the broadband component of the USG be primarily delivered via the NBN, bolstered by the proposed statutory infrastructure provider (SIP) legislation currently before Parliament. The voice component of the USG would be delivered using the existing USO contract with Telstra for the foreseeable future. Given the USO contract has a limited life, a more robust long term USG solution is needed. In the interim, there will also be a sustained focus on continuing improved management of the USO contract.”

And finally from NBN Co page on SkyMuster (same goes for FW areas)

"Will my existing copper services remain active when I connect with nbn?

The existing copper lines and services at your premises will not be altered or changed by an nbn™ Sky Muster™ satellite installation."

[robynne.burchell]

I should clarify that I am not out in the scrub, I am living in a country town.

[mark_m]

@robynne.burchell

I am living in a country town.

In our situation the circumstances are equally confusing.

What appears to have been followed by the NBN Co design is to provide FTTN plus some FTTC to reach all of the footprint of the local council town village planning zone.

The zone is shaped a little like a peanut.

Consequently the NBN Co is connecting premises between 2km and 3km from the town centre to fixed line services. However there are other instances of properties close to town, but not in the peanut missing out. Some are as close as 1,000m to the township centre (1,500m or less copper distance to exchange). Future FW service to be provided. We can look across the rows of pineapples, several hundred meters to properties on good FTTN. There is no simple answer under the current rules The NBN Co has been set by government.

FTTC could service our property and another 25 premises.
3500m of fibre cable and 8-10 DPUs all connected back to the main fibre connection point in town.

A rough guess is that would cost all up between $3,000 and $4,000 NBN dollars per connection. This is potentially a lower cost than the FW service planned for the area.

The catch here is that if the NBN Co were to extend FTTC in similar situations, it is robbing the local FW of customers. The NBN Co will not short term recover any more income from making a change to FTTC in these situations. The total number of customers stays the same. Providing FTTC is simply an added cost the NBN Co can too easily avoid. Achieved by dumping customers onto FW or satellite.

And in our area, it also appears to be possible to be ‘in town’ while not really being ‘in town’.

[mark_m]

More not so great news for consumers at the end of the NBN rollout.

Is this the worst NBN rollout in metropolitan Australia? Residents certainly...

Thanks to the ABC for the report.

Just one small error in the content, provided by the NBN in their response to the ABC.

Mr Williams said NBN Co had heard from the Samford community that, “their current level of service is inadequate to do what they need to do”.

“We’re providing a step change. And I think the other thing that’s important to remember is that we don’t just build a network and then go away, we are here to stay,” he said.

But he conceded NBN Co’s plans for Samford had changed over time, which meant fewer residents were being offered fixed-line services like fibre.

"The Samford village is really unique, and the area around it is unique with the topology, with the hills, which makes some technologies more challenging than others.

Samford village is not really unique when it comes to topology, urban/rural spread or community. There are plenty of other similar circumstances not that far away. Maleny, Peachester, Glass House Mountains are just three more where topography wins over FW, and the options for FTTC have been bypassed for expediency.

More concisely, in my area the town centre FTTN ends 200m from one end of the property. The new FW tower leaves our home in a wireless shadow. While just across the creek approx 300m distant properties twice as far from the town centre have FTTC.

A second point on which the ABC is misquoting fact.

Across Australia, just 7 per cent of NBN customers are being offered fixed wireless or satellite.

It’s actually between 10% and 11% of the 11.6M estimated properties able to connect at the end of the program.

7% is closer to the NBN forecast number of the premises who will choose to connect to the satellite and FW service. Likely also a reflection or measure of those consumers who might be concerned about the quality of their solution.

4% of premises in the satellite and FW footprint will choose to go without or look elsewhere for their solutions. Not quite a universal customer service?

P.s.
Not sure which of the NBN topics this fits best, although the solution for many customers lies with FTTC, if it were offered. Alternately it relates the strategy of the NBN to dump, sorry offer to connect the remaining potential customers as expediently and as cheaply as possible. The first version of the NBN around 6 governments and 5 PMs past promised 93% on fibre, leaving 7% for wireless and satellite. It would appear the source for the ABC figure of 7% is either confused or deliberately trying to conflate the two figures.

From Wikipedia (for the original NBN FTTP)
For each percentage point of coverage above 93%, FTTP build costs become prohibitive because of a low population density.[17] However, the FTTP footprint could be expanded where users or communities were willing to pay the incremental costs of installing FTTP.[18]_

[postulative]

@mark_m

…the FTTP footprint could be expanded where users or communities were willing to pay the incremental costs of installing FTTP

That’s an old article, but I would be willing to pay for FTTP or FTTC if given the chance. (Then again, I’m still on my ADSL 6mbps down, waiting to get the right hardware before I move over to FTTN.)

[mark_m]

@postulative

That’s an old article, but I would be willing to pay for FTTP or FTTC if given the chance.

Yes, the original 2008/9 Labour sponsored NBN commitment. The current area switch program supposedly offered something similar. Very little uptake possibly due to how it was promoted and offered.

Individual technology upgrades at a price are an option. Assuming two of my neighbours were keen we could as a group of three fund a FTTC upgrade. However I already know one of the two would not gain any benefit.

[mark_m]

NBN replaces 10,000 modems after lightning ‘fries’ devices across Blue Mountains

The Blue Mountains has a high percentage of FTTC customers, and with lightning strikes destroying that equipment. The NBN is looking for a longer-term fix to the problem.

The same issues would not have arisen with FTTP.

The Gardian also reports for the NBN FTTC services more generally.

According to data provided to Senate estimates, FttC reported a 10% fault rate in the last financial year, double the fault rate of the fibre-to-the-premises setup. The company also reported that 3% of the 437,000 boxes installed at the kerb are replaced every month.

That’s approximately a 1 in 3 annual failure rate! /s

[isopeda]

@mark_m

That’s approximately a 1 in 3 annual failure rate! /s

Reviving an old topic: can anyone with FTTC tell us whether NBN has actually found a “longer-term solution” (than replacing FTTC modems as they fry)? The 2021 Guardian article said

[NBN’s CEO] said the company was looking for a longer-term fix to the problem.

According to data provided to Senate estimates, FttC reported a 10% fault rate in the last financial year, double the fault rate of the fibre-to-the-premises setup. The company also reported that 3% of the 437,000 boxes installed at the kerb are replaced every month.

I didn’t find more recent reports of this problem via online search just now.

[mark_m]

A good place to start looking at what is a better solution. The availability of the upgrades from previous news items is supposedly a staged rollout based on location and demand?
It’s not quite free, although dressed up to appeal to some more than others.

Upgrade to nbn’s full fibre | nbn

[postulative]

@mark_m

…supposedly a staged rollout based on location and demand

That link promises nothing but email spam, online tracking cookies and pixels, and the ability to use my personal information how the NBN feels like using it.

nbn may link your personal information to cookies and tracking pixels for improving website performance and user experience.

Of course, I could always read the NBN’s cookie notice and privacy policy to find out exactly why it is doing all this tracking - or I could just stab myself in the eye with a blunt pencil.

I would love to get off FTTN, which drops out every time it rains - but am not yet sufficiently desperate to fill in the NBN’s ‘pick me’ form.

[mark_m]

@postulative

That link promises nothing but email spam, online tracking cookies and pixels, and the ability to use how the NBN feels like using it.

Not very constructive or helpful. What would you suggest as the alternative for the OP?
We could all pretend the NBN does not exist and we do not need the NBN. Noted a precautionary “pencil” the suggest appropriate protection.

If one is already an NBN customer - a reasonable assumption for those wondering about the reliability of their FTTC service, the NBN already knows all there is to know. One cannot get a direct answer to whether they can or can’t upgrade, or join the queue by remaining anonymous.

“my personal information”
Assume by that you do not mean your @postulative personal information?

As far as the issue of personal privacy, we all face similar issues with use of the net every day. Perhaps the caution would have been more useful and relevant when the NBN was first offering to sign up customers. For better or for worse more than 70% of our premises have connected through the NBN. Anonymity serves some purposes. Getting a service connected or upgraded is not one of them.

If there is a genuine concern here, is it the now well trodden path that our government of the day chose to exercise political difference, and delivered a third world solution for a first world need? The price today - the added cost of full fibre upgrades. Supposedly due to the unprecedented increase in demand for faster services, and not the short comings of past political incompetence.

[grahroll]

A Private Window in Firefox will block tracking content, though once an address has been input this can/will alert NBN Co(R) to the address being searched. If wanting to just check availability then use a neighbour’s address for the check in that Private Window, no need to supply a name or other detail. If really peeved by cookie collection then install an extension like uBlock Origin and use the filter selection to block many of the obnoxious ones such as Google Analytics.

Screenshot of uBlock showing Google Analytics among 3 others that are blocked on the NBN Co cookie page as an example (blocked have a - mark)

Only if a user wants to go further and order the upgrade, then more personal detail and an accurate address will be required. This will obviously include providing personal data to a RSP (Retail Service Provider) who is going to provide the FTTP package a user requires e.g. a 250 Mbps plan.

[mark_m]

@grahroll

the FTTP package a user requires e.g. a 250 Mbps plan.

It will leave some to ask what the NBN would propose if customers in numbers refused to upgrade? What would the ongoing cost to the NBN of maintaining the FTTC in pit modems mean for their bottom line? A similar outlook for FTTN customers and costs of maintaining the aged last hundreds of metres of copper line?

[grahroll]

This cost of maintenance was raised during the “debate” over Rudd’s plan Vs MTM NBN. It was dismissed by the political party in power (Liberals and Nationals). In my opinion we were sold a poisoned chalice.