Might need the drug test and breathalyser kits then?
On the serious side.
My BEB has a speedo as standard, so no excuse. Assume the same for the more capable scooters etc.
For those without power assist a good walking pace is around 5kph.
Olympic speed walkers can do a mile in 6minutes or around 16kph. So 10kph on 2 wheels is very very leisurely.
me: I was only doing 12kph in the 10kph zone.
police: Radar has you, guilty as charged you reckless scofflaw. A fine and demerits for you!
âCharged on summonsâ - I think means welcome to court to respond to the accusation. Not quite an on the spot fine or demerit points. Most inconvenient - if the public interest test is unable to be satisfied. (Note: just a lay interpretation and not intended to be legal advice.) A nice tie perhaps? 
The PR did say a trial.
The first phase of the operation will include an education approach, with police handing out flyers and making sure those using the space understand the rules.
If there is a genuine problem, it would seem a suitable starting point. How else is one to avoid an argument with the locals concerning their speed at the time? For those testing patience and riding at 20kph, visually adjudged might not be up to the standard required to proceed in a court? (Lawyers spend up to 50% of their appearances arguing such things? Itâs part of their craft.) One sure winner if the trial proceeds to a more ominous phase.
Perhaps time to move on to public car parks with 10kph speed limits that are not enforced, or drivers who see but one aim on entry and exit?
I think the speed question does become important for these newish travel methods.
Imagine the possible disaster of a pedestrian being knocked by a runner/jogger who collides into them at some speed above a normal walking pace. Often the slower moving pedestrian walker is tumbled/jolted/boosted to the ground suffering sometimes very bad injuries (as may the runner). My mother on a shared path was hit by an older method of transport ie a bicycle in a shared zone, this caused broken ribs, severe laceration to her leg (the bicycle hit her from the rear). Rider got back on their bike and took off swearing, with no asking if my mother was OK. A scooter etc can do just as much injury and the faster they go the more damage that can be sustained/given is increased.
10 kph (or the 5 kph ones as well) in car parks should be enforced but if it is a private one eg under Woolies who do they get to make sure every car/vehicle complies and how do they âpunishâ the offenders? Lots of employment opportunities but the price of goods is going to rise sharply to pay for the traffic oversight. Public has many of the same issues of who will enforce and rates and taxes will rise to cover the new employees. Even the âIâm in a car so even if Iâm driving out of private property Iâm on the road so pedestrians beware as you walk on the footpath in front of usâ need a lesson in road rules.
Courtesy and respect for others seems well lost these days.
The benefit of the speed limits in the carparks is mainly for the benefit of the owners of the area. This in that if something happens because of speed the owners can pretty much deny responsibility as they set the limits and others ignore them at the othersâ peril. Got to love those Car Parking regulation signs that almost no one reads that seek to absolve the Carpark owners from every fault that can be imagined including their own or their staff negligence.
An article regarding speed camera deployment in the ACT.
Revenue raising? Move along folks. Nothing to see here.
Meanwhile, In FNQ, the speed cameras are always positioned so as to be as unnoticeable as possible whilst maximising revenue raising.
Road safety?
Not according to these damming national statitics.
Table 1.2 Year to date
Year to date NSW Vic Qld SA WA Tas NT ACT Australia
February 2020 - February 2020 56 41 25 16 23 12 5 0 178
February 2021 - February 2021 53 36 46 17 33 3 3 3 194
Per cent change -5.4 -12.2 84.0 6.3 43.5 -75.0 -40.0 - 9.0
And the winner isâŠQLD.
Qld managed to equal their higest December road toll over the past decade last December.
But never let the truth get in the way of revenue raising.
I donât see a problem. If you are not paying attention and get caught perhaps that is the issue, regardless of where it is on the road system. The same goes for drivers using mobile phones.
I guess much tougher driver testing and licensing is not going to go down well, as an alternate strategy. Would it not only reduce the number of âidiotsâ on the roads, but also cause a significant fall in revenue due to speeding vehicles?
There are other options such as doubling all demerit points. Two strikes and you are out. One if you are unlucky. Itâs the norm in some states at certain times of the year.
Doesnât saying we actually need enforcement to reduce bad and poor driver behaviour point to the root cause? Itâs not that we need more enforcement. We need fewer bad drivers. Letting them on the road in the first instance creates the need for more enforcement.
In a way I agree speed cameras are not the ultimate solution. We do have the technology to speed limit all vehicles based on the zone they are in. So long as we donât turn off the nag from the voice in the GPS. This can be hardwired using very low tech.
That is an old argument that does not hold air let alone water. What are you paying most attention to? Driving and the road and surroundings, or the speedo? Both you reply? One cannot devote 100% to driving if you are always looking at the speedo.
OK, put the fear of the license in miscreants. Some wonât care and drive anyway license or not. Those who do now drive 5~10kph under the limit just in case while the increasingly longish queue behind them on the 2 land windy road gets ever more impatient; some will rage and others might take chances to get around âyouâ.
It is not simple,
As posted many times before, a camera does not take them off the road, not does a hidden camera cause them to do anything different, unless they respond when they get the fine in the post a few weeks later. Until then driving as usual.
In a country where mobile coverage is spotty to non-existent across most of the geography would you explain how that will be done, and the cost, especially on roads such as the Savannah Way and worse?
Yet they are good revenue raisers! And they have become a religion of lovers, one of haters, and one of âif you donât speed what is the problemâ?
It would be interesting to have a record of how many drivers making insurance claims or having accidents also had demerit points. Not sure it would prove much either way, but it would be as good an âargumentâ as speed cameras promoting safety more than revenue.
Governments include parking fines and moving violation fines as revenue in their budgets. Need more be said about the âpowersâ being unbiased? They can arm wave that it is about moving customers along re parking fines, and promoting safety for moving violations, but if they did not have the revenue services would suffer or taxes would increase to make up for it. How do most voters react to each argument - simples, let those evil speeders pay.
Caveat: In contrast to speed cameras I am 100% supportive of red light cameras.
The problem is the blatant hypocrisy.
The authorities mouth off endlessly that âspeed cameras save livesâ.
The fact is that Qld now has more cameras than ever but the road toll for 2021 has skyrocketed, and the December 2020 road toll was equal to the highest December figure in the past decade.
Time they stopped lying and stated the truth. âSpeed cameras raise revenueâ.
Yes it does. Anyone who has held a pilots license has the ability to observe and judge a number of items of information simultaneously. Itâs called flying, and preferably ending by landing in a controlled manner.
As I later suggested there are numerous ways modern technology can compensate for those of us who have difficulty telling the difference between our true and apparent ground speed.
Surprisingly the majority of drivers avoid being fined for speeding, and avoid becoming a road statistic at the same time.
Experience suggests that many regardless will not accept other than having a clear road ahead, regardless of speed of the traffic they are confined within. With queued behaviour in a line to get into the footy or the movies or even the checkout civility and taking ones turn rules. Isolated from humanity inside a motor vehicle that unpredictability can evaporate. Which temperament do we most desire of the responsible motorist?
I donât disagree with the alternate view points. I do feel we are wasting energy grumbling about one thing (speeding fines) when the focus should be on what really causes motor vehicle accidents. Itâs all about the driver. Speeding is just a symptom, not much different to failing a Corona Virus temperature check at entry to the local doctor. There after it is up to some expertise to decide what should best follow.
Should the use of speed cameras be changed? Thereâs other ways to raise revenue across the road transport system. Long distance Toll roads are common in Europe, USA and âŠ
Would a system of zero fines with demerits that lead to driver retraining and testing be greeted with joy or also rejected? Perhaps we all just need to slow down and take a little longer. Itâs the best way to kill off speed cameras. If they canât pay for themselves? Zero cost solution.
@Fred123 is right to point out that Qld is going the wrong way with road accident statistics. And itâs not as simple as speed cameras. IMHO.
(US) Commercial Instrument Airplane Rating, had more instrument time than most non-professionals and had a day each ghosting Houston Centre and Houston Approach controllers plus a few hours in the Intercontinental Tower. Tell me again about ATC and radar keeping you clear of the other cars on the roadsâŠnot to belittle VFRâŠ
Iâll leave this for a while, again, because as I noted it is a religion no matter which side one is on, yet I am not a religious person under normal circumstances.
edit: Want to trade notes on ability to observe? Photo from late 1990s. My Comanche 260C.
If we can look at what is behind the rise in Qld.
Until the end of Dec 2020.
Forty per cent of fatal crashes involved people not wearing seatbelts, 17.5 per cent involved speeding, and 14 per cent involved fatigue.
Nearly 3 in 4.
Also to note 54 of the 276 fatalities (20%) were motorcyclists. Thatâs not intended to blame the riders. A motor cycle vs a car is a one way argument.
The Courier Mail - paywalled has commented on the significant rise in motorcycle related accidents and overall increased road use. In greater BrisVegas many are avoiding public transport has been raised as a significant factor.
How many may be driving longer distances than usual instead of flying, visiting or tripping because OS is not an option? Itâs not an issue in NSW or Vic. Per the stats WA has also seen an upswing during 2020, but not to the same extent as Qld.
Pity about the police helicopter.
Oops.
Very likely true, BUT a truly spurious arguement! How many pilots have to observe the turkeys in other planes travelling 1.5 to 2 metres to the side, or two âplane lenghtsâ ahead of or behind them??
Welcome back @harps
True, itâs a special skill.
Driving a motor vehicle would seem much less challenging, if like the Roulettes we all just followed the leader. Itâs also self evident what could go wrong if the pilot at the back decides they want to go rogue and drop out of formation.
It should come as no surprise that temperament is a core selection criteria for all professional pilots. Perhaps our driver training and testing needs to be upgraded to meet the same expectation? One way to remove the turkey factor that is a shared concern.
No question about it, never has been, but politically itâd be way too unpopular. Interestingly having several hundred people die each and every year in part due to training and testing thatâs not appropriate to the complexity of the task is apparently not too politically unpopular as theyâve managed to desensitise the issue.
I am unsure whether this person is a very fast learner or a very slow learner.
" A news bulletin on Channel Nine , owner of this masthead, reported there were 2300 drivers busted by mobile speed cameras in June 2020 â before the signs were taken down â raising a total of $453,000 in fines .
However, in June 2021 â after the new measures were introduced â more than 22,000 drivers were busted by mobile speed cameras, raking in $5 million in fines , a more than tenfold increase."
âNSW Opposition leader Chris Minns, who was formerly the shadow minister for transport, had been lobbying for the return of warning signs at mobile speed camera locations since their removal â and has repeatedly accused the NSW Government of a âcash grabâ and âhitting families in the hip pocketâ with the harsh new measures.â
âTheyâve announced a thousand new signs in NSW but revenueâs already gone up 1000 times,â Mr Minns told Channel Nine News .
Minns canât tell the difference between 10 times and 1,000 times.
I guess if Labor gets elected in NSW, he will be a front runner to be the Treasurer.
Having just read about the poor(er) Tesla owner whose Dad accidentally bought him an autopilot, I finally realise the ânext step in speed trapsâ (please just accept they are speed traps for this argument).
The technology is already in an increasing number of vehicles to read speed limit signs and compare them to (often outdated or just inaccurate) navigation maps. Some cars have options to allow the sign reading limits to override the limits in the maps.
Step back and imagine our dollar hungry governments making a deal with Tomtom, Garmin, and the manufacturers so that if the vehicle detected it was over the posted limit it would just charge your on-file card (required as part of rego) and assign demerits. If you wanted to challenge them click âhereââŠ
How efficient that would be. No police hiding behind bushes and no favouritism of where since it would be everywhere; there couldnât possibly be errors or mistakes in the systems by definition (right!) so challenges would be costly to file.
George Orwell, you understood where it would go.
Sorta fair enough to let the âsystemâ override the maps, BUT mine reads the 70 signs on expressway exits as I go past on the 110km/h limit road.
Also, the down/up limit signs on any road are often moved willy nilly one or two hundred metres either way, then that annoying woman yaps out, âplease obey all traffic regulationsâ. I wonât print my usual answer to her!
The only problem with that being is my lovely wife tells me, âShe canât hear a word you say, but I have to listenâ.
Some exit speed signs are large and rectangular, and worded, âExit speed 70km/hâ, black on a yellow background, not with circle around the speed - much better. All the exits I saw in Tasmania earlier this year were the black/yellow ones. My car never once showed a lower limit as I passed exits.
