Samsung Refrigerator issues

If you are not happy with the outcome of the tech visit, formalise every communication in writing, ‘time stamped’ notes, who you talked to and the outcome, and make sure all emails have acknowedgement to demonstrate they were received. HN is not a company, but a collection of franchises that apparently each sets their own business standards. ‘Harvey Norman’ is a buying agent that licenses the look and feel and marketing and makes all possible attempts to step aside regarding problems. Even the HN online site is a separate business; there are numerous posts about HN across the forum.

When they sell product care their position is they have shifted their responsibility. That is not how the ACL sees it but consumers will usually play their game.

Based on your statement about a US class action you probably could make a winning case with a formalised request for a refund/replacement through a well done ‘letter of complaint’. It should go to the franchisee, perhaps also the product care company, and cc’d to HN itself so they are aware.

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The service bulletin in your post (2015) predates the delivery/purchase date of your fridge (around 2016/17 from the information provided above) and it could argued that it is not relevant to the fridge you purchased as any known ‘design problems’ could have been resolved in any updates to the model.

There is a service bulletin which is dated after the purchase of your fridge and this one should be the one which is referred to. This service bulletin can be found here:

https://www.scribd.com/document/332005575/Samsung-FDBM-Refrigerator-Ice-Maker-Bulletin-1-0-0

There is also an additional 2017 service bulletin which for other models which can be found here:

http://www.uncleharrywizard.com/nephewclub/wizardfrig/samsung/samsung---refrig---rf267.pdf

It could be good to know the model number of your fridge so that the right service bulletin is known for the particular problem.

Notwithstanding this, the first service bulletin states the problem could be caused by:

Some of these problems may arise from a failure of one or more components associated with the icemaker, namely the defrost/cooling loop, auger motor or perished seals. Other may be from movement/incorrect fitment of components on manufacturer, namely the ice bucket gasket seal, water leak or the ice route is not sealing properly. Other may be from inadequate maintenance, namely, air duct locked with frost or ice. It would be interesting to know if the later would be resolved by the general maintenance in the user manual.

The above does not necessarily indicate that there is a known design fault with the fridge. It indicates that a icemaker causing loud intrusive noises in known by Samsung and Samsung has issued a service bulletin to assist service technicians in finding and resolving the source of the noise quickly.

I wouldn’t be jumping to the conclusion that the fridge has a known design problems as it could be the case this this is not correct. If it become correct from information gathered through discussion with Samsung and/or the service technician, then it would fall into the major fault category under the ACL, namely “it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it”. Proving such may however be very difficult…and possibly why in the US some fridge owners have mounted a class action. It is also worth noting that information about US fridges may or may not apply to models sold in Australia and shouldn’t be fully relied upon per say.

If the fault has been caused by a fault in the icemaker or poor quality control in the factory of the fitment of icemaker components, then these will be the responsibility of Samsung to rectify. When the service technician visits, I would be asking if the problem is common and is there anything you can do to ensure that the problem does not occur again.

If the service technician indicates that the problem has been caused by inadequate maintenance in accordance with the user manual/guide, ask how often maintenance should be carried out (which for example could be more regular in humid/moist environments) and how best to do the maintenance (get the technical to show you how to do it).

The second service bulletin states the problem could be caused by:

image

and recommends the replacement of the Ice Maker Service Kit (Ice Maker and Main PCB). It could be assumed that the PCB would need replacement as it would have been damaged by the blockage.

Both these, unless the blockage was caused by the operator, should be replaced by Samsung.

Not necessarily, an example is say a car power steering started to have a loud squeaky noise when the wheel was turned, one would not expect the car manufacturer to replace the whole car because the noise was intrusive and annoying when driving the car. One would expect the components making the noise to be replaced to mitigate the noise. Unfortunately the same applies with the fridge. While the noise is annoying, it appears from the information you have provided it has not affected the operation of the fridge. Therefore, under the ACL it is unlikely to major fault as the service bulletin indicates that the noise problem can be readily rectified

Also, the ACL allows for compensation where the use of a product causes losses or damage. However, if ones use caused the loss or damage (say physically turning off the fridge which results in food being spoiled), then it is unlikely that compensation would be available as the loss/damage could have been avoided by the consumer.

As outlined above, this service bulletin predates that of your fridge and may not be relevant to your fridge. The above links to 2017 service bulletins are those which will be relevant.

One can’t use the US as what may happen in Australia. Australian Consumer Laws are very different to that in the US and consumer rights and the manufacturer’s/seller’s responsibilities come under the Australian Consumer Law.

These rights and responsibilities are explained in plain English on the ACCC website:

No, the T&Cs (see below) does not say that in relation to minor faults. HN I expect will point to the terms and conditions which relate to the Australian Consumer Law and state that the fridge’s problems (if not due to inadequate maintenance), come under the ACL (see section 1-9 and 12 of the product Care T&Cs).

Unfortunately the T&Cs give HN the flexibility to chose what it claims the product fault falls under. As the ball is in HN court, I would be very surprised if they automatically offered a refund or replacement, when their product care T&Cs indicate that can fall back on the ACL and do a repair.

This is the main reason why the product has no value over the consumer rights under the ACL, and one in effect is paying for smoke and mirrors which advantage only HN.

https://www.productcareclaims.com/asset/media/180912_PRODUCT_CARE_ELECTRICAL_BOOKLET_WITHOUT_TRIMS.pdf

Reading the Product Care T&Cs, it doesn’t provide much more than that can be offered under the Australian Consumer Law. The only additional benefits, if they can be called that, is the Product Care can be transferred through change in ownership during the period the care package is taken out, it applies overseas (assuming the product can be taken overseas and the manufacturer won’t honour their product warranty in another country) and one gets some minor discounts on other HN products…




The last one is interesting as it most likely wouldn’t apply as one of there exclusions for an ‘eligible fault’ would possibly render this one useless (see subclauses c, d and e).

One needs to assess whether these ‘additional’ benefits justify the price premium to purchase product care.

A final comment is wait until the service technician attends the fridge to determine if the problem is likely to reoccur, is a known design fault (noting that a service bulletin does not indicate a design fault but how to fix a problem - they are a bit like a technical service bulletin used for car services and issued by the car manufacturer) and whether they is any maintenance you can do to prevent a recurrence. If all the above three are answered in the affirmative, then you may need to take the matter further.

Until then, it is best to be patient. Also let us know how you get on with the service technician.

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How did you go? I am now having this and many other Ice Machine problems on my fridge.

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Can anyone tell update me on what’s going on with complaints re the Samsung refrigerator French door ice makers.
Model # SRF644CDLS.
I am over my ice maker constantly freezing up and having to force out ice drawer and then defrosting the iced up machine🤬
Drawer now cracked
We purchased the fridge at the end of 2017, ice maker started freezing up a few months after purchase, spoke to Samsung, went through all the checks -
However continues to freeze up.
Yes I should have called Samsung again but just have put up with it until now, frustrated to say the least.
Just got off the phone to Samsung and no help at all?:face_with_symbols_over_mouth::face_with_symbols_over_mouth:
Please if anyone has any ideas of where I should go now

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Hi @Kaz1, welcome to the community.

I have moved your post here as there is an existing thread about Samsung ice makers in fridges and some of the problems other community members have had. It is worth reading the above posts.

If you could let us know how old the fridge is and also its model number, it would be great. This information will let us know if n it is an inherent/design fault with that particular models and what rights you may have under the Australian Consumer Law.

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You need to compose a formal ‘letter of complaint’ and send it to the retailer from which you bought the fridge, getting a receipt. Use the community search function as there are many links to the Choice article and ACCC Consumer Law pages as well as tools to help compose one and advice from members on the content. Note the retailer is responsible and they cannot fob you off to Samsung. You may be entertained by searching Harvey Norman franchisees who have been fined $100,000s for misrepresenting consumer rights and fobbing off their customers.

A 3 year old fridge should not be having such problems, yet ice automatic ice makers are notoriously unreliable overall from total failures to leaking to operational issues such as yours.

Talk is ‘idle chit chat’. You need to go formal and if you do not receive reasonable engagement that ‘paper trail’ can be taken to Fair Trading to lodge a formal complaint.

Please let us know how you go, or if you need additional guidance. If you are a Choice member you can also avail yourself of Choice Help (via the Choice web site) who can guide you through although they can be busy from time to time so may take a few days to get back.

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This model has only 2 reviews on Product Review, both 5 star.

Why not post your own review which will severly downgrade their 5 star rating?

That might get their attention.

have had 4 service calls to replace ice maker parts the last service person sent from samsung told me the refrigerator was unrepairable the insulation was wet

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Hi
About 7 years ago I bought a top of the range Samsung french door fridge/freezer. I also paid $500 for the extended warranty. I thought as it was just shy of $3000 it would be a long lasting investment. Its first flaw appeared in a few years. Then another the year after ice began to form and the fan internally and on the back of the fridge made a terrible noise, each time being repaired by Harvey Norman repair people, ending with them saying its fixed. In the 5th year, when the warranty was about to run out it began making this crazy noise (it sounded like it was dying). I called Harvey Norman Mandurah, the repair people came out and said nothing was wrong!!! I called and asked to speak to the manager who was abusive, swore and said most people have replaced their fridges before 5 yrs!!! I was so incensed and being a single mother ofcourse I can’t afford to do that! I went to consumer affairs and, without hearing my side of the story they sided with the crazy manager! A short while after the fridge is broken!! It still work but forms half inch puddle at the bottom of the fridge every 3 days. It also turns into ice. So i have to defrost my “frost free” fridge at least once a week. They ice also forms in a big block behind the freezer draw and prevent the draw closing properly :confused: I’ve had to take out the veggie draws because they fill with water and the fruit and veges spoil. I knew something was wrong within the warranty time period and no one listened (including consumer affairs) and now I’m stuck with this $3000 dollar seriously failing product ;( Any advice or tips would be appreciated. I will never buy a Samsung fridge again, and I haven’t stepped foot inside a Harvey Norman since, especially not Mandurah !!

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We are on our second Samsung fridge and no problems with either of them. I would definitely buy Samsung again.

That soumds like a very smart move. Their reviews on Product Review sum them up nicely.

Perhaps post one yourself.

Also check the reviews, if any, for your fridge model.

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Welcome to the Community @Reed,

There should be more to this story because even budget fridges should last upwards of 6 years

Without comment on the Harvey Norman franchise you dealt with, it could be so simple as a broken defrost fan or clogged drainway. Regardless they should have taken care of it.

How did you complain to your consumer affairs? Did you go through the formal processes described in the Australian Consumer Law, or just have informal emails and phone calls?

Considering your rights under the ACL (search on the Community as well as the internet) it seems there may be more to the problem, be it process and procedure or something else. Your first need is to collect evidence regarding the fridge history, each call out and repair, the dates and times of everything, and regardless of your past experience with ‘consumer affairs’ deliver a formal Letter of Complaint to your HN manager as well as to Samsung as you may be served better to contact them again after submitting more ‘documentation’.

Samsung may or may not help directly, and under the ACL the HN franchise ‘owns’ and is responsible for your problem and delivering or facilitating an outcome, although that does not suggest ‘the customer is always right’ in each case, and as a distant observer can make no conclusion based on a post.

If he/they fobs you off you should be aware numerous HN franchises have been fined $100,000s for misrepresenting your rights. Unfortunately each consumer has to assert them on their own, especially with those HN franchises that seem to operate over the edge of them when they can. As a minimum your HN manager should have become your proponent to Samsung.

A caveat is that even if one goes through all the proper processes and procedures, ‘Consumer Affairs’ sometimes can seem like a business protection unit and an unhappy customer needs to go to the xCAT tribunal, costly in time, preparation, and a process many consumers would not be comfortable embarking on, and the businesses know this. Consider if one goes to a consumer affairs without evidence and already having already followed and documented the process and procedure, they will ask the business their side and if the business has even the most basic evidence to support themselves in response to a ‘hard evidence’ free claim they can prevail. Think of it as a court where you have to explain every aspect to a magistrate who knows nothing about any of it and decides based on what is put in front of him, not just what is said to him, hoping that distinction makes sense.

Search the Community using the Community search tool for Australian Consumer Law, Letter of Complaint, and you should find useful guidance on how to proceed.

If you are a Choice member you can also get personal guidance via the Choice Help service. If you are and do, they are often busy so might take a few days to reply.

Let us know how you go; regardless it seems you have a dodgy fridge.

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Welcome to the Community @Reed

My relative who is a Refrigeration and Air Conditioning mechanic is currently dealing with a Samsung fridge that is forming a block of ice that has frozen the fans in place. No answer yet as to why this has happened.

A noisy fan is often due to ice build up around the blades, this can happen if the water that is produced is not able to drain away. A reason to suspect it is not draining properly is build up of water in the interior of the fridge such as on the bottom. The water usually drains to a tray that sits atop the compressor and evaporates as the compressor heats up while running. So if your fridge can be defrosted it may be worthwhile checking that the drainage tube has not become blocked, to do so I usually use a piece of whipper snipper line to feed up the the tube from where it exits near the compressor. The line needs to be about a metre in length to ensure there is enough to reach up far enough in the tube. The tube becoming blocked may not be considered a problem covered by ACL rights as it is can just be mould growing naturally in the tube because it can be a very moist environment if you live in a very humid climate and so lots of ice forming during cooling cycles so lots of water running off during the defrost cycles.

Regardless of this being said, it is still a problem that should be investigated but it may end up being at your cost to rectify. Among other reasons for ice build up can be a heater element not working, so de-icing does not occur during the system’s defrosting cycle, or a failed thermostat so the fridge becomes too cold, there may be other reasons but I have experienced those problems I have noted.

@PhilT has covered this well regarding what can/should be done regarding your rights.

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Others will give you better advice about your rights as a consumer than I can. I may be able to help though.

A common reason why modern fridges produce water is the auto-defrost system is not working properly. There are various things that go wrong but a common one is the drain is blocked. The system varies with model but it is fairly common to find a tray or channel under the cooling coils that collects the water during the defrost cycle and leads to a drain which takes the water down to an evaporation tray at the bottom, often on top of the motor.

Look at your fridge and find such a tray or channel, they are not always exposed, if hidden you may be out of luck. If you can see it check where the drain hole is, it may be blocked with gunk. Try to clean it out with a wooden skewer or similar, if the blockage is down the pipe you may be able to clear it with a stiff but flexible wire or cord. Something like line-trimmer cord or thin wire.

The second thing is check the temperature. It is not normal for ice to form inside except on the cooling coils. You may have it set too cold. Use a thermometer and let it equilibrate in various parts of the fridge and take note of the temperature. It should be about 3-4C, if it is down at zero turn up the thermostat to a higher temperature.

Thirdly, check the door seals. Poor seals will lead to moist air getting in which leads to excess water and ice inside. If you open and then close the door try to open it again a few seconds after it closes. If you get resistance (due to air pressure) to the second opening the seal is good. If you suspect it is not good try using a spatula or blunt flat knife around the edge. Open the door and put the blade across the seal then shut the door. The seal ought to grip the blade somewhat. Try this at (say) 10 cm intervals all the way round, it ought to give you a good idea where the seal is holding and where not. Replacing the seal may not be something you can do yourself but you will be in front if you call a repairman. You may also be able to improve the seals yourself by washing them (including in cracks and crevices) with warm soapy water. They work better and harbour less germs when clean. Once warm you may be able to stretch the seal, expand it if you like, in flat spots to improve its fit.

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We have had a Samsung fridge for some 20 years. Apart from having to have the thermostats replaced twice it has worked well. As you will be aware performance can vary between models and even within models for any brand. So don’t write the Samsung brand off completely.

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Hi, I also have a Samsung French Door fridge of around 8 years old and had the same problem with water. As others have said it was a blocked drain tube (behind a panel at the back of the fridge inside).

See Fixing Samsung Fridge Ice Buildup and Leaking Water under Crisper Tray - YouTube for video of how to fix it.

I did the same and have had no trouble with water in the bottom of my fridge since!

Defrosting alone may not work…get a hairdryer on it (but not on the highest heat setting).

Good luck,
Jim

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Welcome to the Community @jim3,

Thanks for that helpful first post. I hope @Reed is still following along to see it. If she still has her fridge and the problem, even if she cannot try this herself she might have a friend who can help.

If this is ‘The Resolution’ it would be a bad look on Samsung that their organisation and repair techs are not only oblivious, but also don’t use youtube (or google) to find solutions.

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Here is my correspondence with Samsung about a fridge we bought from the Good Guys. There were many phone calls with the continuing escalation of our problem ending with a completely crazy solution.

16 Nov 21

Dear Samsung,

Please see my email sent on 11 Nov 2021. We paid, out of our own pocket, for the recommended Samsung technician (Camtec) to look at the fridge. In their report, which was attached to the email, they state that the fridge is unrepairable. I also remark that every Samsung employee that I have had to speak to over the last week or so thinks that it is unreasonable for a fridge to be unrepairable after only a few years of use. I would appreciate it if you could provide me with the recordings of our conversations to support this.

I find your recent email below disturbing. The only solution you recommend is to contact Camtec to service the fridge. This is a ludicrous suggestion as they have already stated that the fridge is unrepairable. Can you please replace the product with a similar model or provide us with a refund.

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Best wishes,
Ben.


16 Nov 21

Dear Ben,

Your claim has been received by Samsung’s Voice of Customer team in Head Office.

We have thoroughly reviewed your claim and unfortunately Samsung is not prepared to offer you a free of charge remedy at this time.

We have considered the particular circumstances of your claim including the age of your product , the price you have paid ,your service history and the nature of the fault.

Samsung believes customer satisfaction is extremely important and invites you to contact our authorised repair agent to arrange an repair at a reasonable price should you wish to do so.

We note that your postcode is 5063, therefore we recommend you contact our service center on CAMTEC SA on [08 7099 0122].

Kind Regards,

Soheil | Voice Of Customer (VOC) Case Manager – CE


11 Nov 21

Dear Samsung (and The Good Guys, Marion),

I am writing with regard to a Samsung fridge we purchased through the Australian retailer, The Good Guys, 4/03/2017, (see attached, invoice.jeg). A fault with the fridge was identified within the warranty period and the Samsung recommended servicer/repairer (Camtec) came to our house to assess the problem. Since this time the fault with the fridge has worsened and we asked Samsung if they would be willing to send the technician to our house again to see if they could repair the fridge. Much to our disappointment, Samsung refused to pay for the technician to look at the fridge stating that the product was no longer covered by the warranty.

We decided to pay for the Samsung recommended repairer to look at the fridge again, Nov 2021. The report is attached to this email (INVOICE 2644.pdf). As you will see in his report, the fridge is unrepairable.

As of the date of this email, I have spoken again with Samsung about the problem and was very disappointed to hear that they are still not willing to replace the fridge, or offer a refund. We think this is completely unacceptable as a high-end fridge purchased new from a reputable retailer and manufacturer should still be in good working order.

According to Australian Consumer Law (ACL):

Warranties are separate from your automatic consumer guarantees. The consumer guarantees which apply regardless of any warranties suppliers sell or give to you, apply for a reasonable time depending on the nature of the goods or services. This means consumer guarantees may continue to apply after the time period for the warranty has expired.

In any case, we believe the fault occurred within the warranty period and it was not properly identified when the Samsung recommended technician first looked at the product.

We very much look forward to a positive response to this correspondence and are prepared to exercise our rights under ACL if the outcome is an unsatisfactory one. We also expect to be reimbursed for the cost of the most recent report of the Samsung recommend technician.

Best wishes,

Ben.


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Hi @benjamin , welcome to the community and for your first contribution.

Have you approached the Good Guys? They are responsible under the ACL and also have the following information as a guide they use (see MINIMUM VOLUNTARY WARRANTY POLICY GUIDE):

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Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear of your sad tale with Samsung.

I suggest that you have a look at other tales of woe relating to Samsung’s (lack of) customer service:
https://choice.community/t/samsung-fridge-bought-from-harvey-norman/25355

and there’s more.

If you have a read them you will see what has been recommended for consumers to do.

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Thanks, I will contact them

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