Role of, or Need for a Department of Fair Trading

I’m all for mandatory reporting of product failures, the repairs or causes to scrap. It’s an expanded role that would suit a different form of ACCC or dedicated consumer enforcement. In the interim we only have anecdotal and by exception reporting. It’s a system that might best be described as by intent to respond by exception?

Independent Assessment.
There are always avenues. For business, industry etc exactly the same type of issues arise. A machine or plant or system fails. The supplier or manufacturer’s tech rep comes to site. Two authorised union tradies accompany the rep to ensure the rep has the correct trade and union tickets. Several thousands of dollars and hours or days of downtime later the item is repaired. The part/s may have cost a few hundreds or thousands or more. The labour often more and parts unique or supply chain protected.

Mostly industry just gets on with it. For some components or parts the cause is visually evident. For others such as a complex electronic item it is often indeterminate. The only expert knowledge of how the part is supposed to function and has been manufactured is held by the OEM. The diagnostics to identify which item has failed might not even exist. Hence a very high level of technical skill combined with expensive test facilities and the intimates of the item are required.

On a cost benefit analysis sometimes it’s worthwhile for the very large enterprises. Legal remedy is rare outside contracted warranties (think 12 months and not lifetime or years).

Fortunately consumers who have only a handful of consumer goods and limited resources the ACL does offer extended terms. Assuming the retailer agrees?

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I have written here previously about my experience of taking an issue with a licensed builder/painter to NCAT. After what was an extraordinary length of time and multiple appearances in (what was) NCAT, the District Court, local court in Lithgow and the Supreme Court, I was awarded restitution at every stage. However, NCAT does NOT have the authority to enforce its judgments. If you are awarded a financial outcome, you have to go to the District Court to get an enforcement notice! And yes the fight begins all over again.

The upshot in my case was that despite all the outcomes in my favour, I never received a single cent from the dodgy builder and he walked away scott free. The entire system is predicated on fear: if the person/organisation does not fear the outcome and simply ignores all judgments, instructions, demands, meetings, attendance at hearings etc, nothing will happen to them and you end up no better off than before you took action. The whole system sets the consumer up to fail (they hope you will just give up and go away) and at the same time protects the guilty parties.

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I agree. Having problems in the past with Sydney Water, Apple and Flight Centre (amongst others) and applying to NCAT, IMHO I only secured victory by sharing my stories with the press and alerting these companies to the names of the journalists involved. As I wrote earlier: to win you must hit the poor corporate citizens where it hurts, their reputation. If consumers only meander the path to NCAT, they are not putting their best foot forward.

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My most recent experience with NCAT demonstrated that a lot depends on which tribunal member hears your complaint. Mine was about fraud, yet the first tribunal member kept steering the conversation away from fraud and towards treating the complaint as if it was about a warranty claim ( it certainly was not ). It was very frustrating and disheartening. Fortunately, there was an adjournment to allow the defendant to gather some documentation.

When I returned to the NCAT after a fortnight, it was before a different member of the tribunal. He looked at my evidence, and made an order that I be refunded the amount by which I had been defrauded. The two tribunal members could not have been more dissimilar.

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An update on the Product Review website.

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A phone response from Rheem today, primarily asking why I had posted a review on the web so long after they had believed the case (their understanding) had been closed. Advised delays were because of the delay in receiving a response from my complaint to the Dept. of Fair Trading, and the subsequent delay in a response from the local member regarding why have a Dept of Fair Trading in any case. Apparently a secondary “review” was undertaken by Rheem but with the same result that no remedy would be forthcoming for the failure of their product. This discussion with Rheem was allegedly recorded. A playback of the recording would, I believe, be particularly illuminating for any prospective purchasers of a Rheem product .

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My understanding is that you are legally entitled to receive a copy of any such recording upon request, so if it was me, I would demand one.

What a bunch of absolute bottom-feeding grubs.

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We are having the exact same issues with Rheem and have also received a response from the same Natalie lady. I’ve escalated ours tonight to consumer protection here in WA.

5.5 year old solar hot water system that we paid $5061 for with not one, but two separate leaks and they are refusing to repair under Australian Consumer Law.

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Any good news?

I have not given much thought to the possibility of fraud with the purchase of goods or services, without naming names or details are you able to give us a general idea what the nature of the fraud was.

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It was a case of odometer wind-back. I was able to acquire documents from the wholesale auction that showed that after purchase at auction, the vehicle had had several worn parts such as steering wheel, seats, carpets, etc replaced, and around 140,000km taken off the odo.

CHOICE made a video of the story, which you can view here, if you are so inclined: https://youtu.be/Jtsgki3JwFQ

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You mention compliance role of (in my case, NSW) FT.
I have an issue with a dishonest strata manager. His dishonesty seems to be a clear breach of the Property and Stock Agents Act 2002 and Property and Stock Agents Regulation 2014.
I complained to FT that the strata manager declined to repair common property that I use (in fact every unit has such an item of common property) citing the by laws state that repairs and maintenance are for the account of lot owners not the Owners’ Corp. I proved him wrong. The by laws are unchanged over three decades.
FT replied by email that the agent’s email to me should be seen as being the voice of the strata committee and my beef is with the latter, not the agent.

The next day I called FT. The woman I spoke to agreed with me: “that the agent knew he was lying when he wrote the BS about the by-laws” and that I should resubmit my application to FT.

Within a business day of resubmission to FT I receive a reply from the same person who earlier indicated that the agent is not to blame for relaying the opinion of the strata committee.
The same person now tells me that if FT takes any investigative or compliance action, I will not be told about it.

So how do I know if FT did anything?
Is FT subject to FOI Act? Can I insist on it revealing what if anything it is doing about this agent?
I have another matter which again shows the dishonesty of the agent, but wonder what’s the point of complaining if I am not told if anything is done about it? That is: disciplinary action; warning letters; stripping of licence etc

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If you peruse the Community and the media you will find similar examples across a number of ‘oversight and regulatory’ agencies. My best guess is you have identified the pervasive problem, eg that most of the ‘oversight and regulatory’ agencies are designed to protect the businesses not to serve the citizens; privacy laws have been constructed to give them cover to do that as effectively as possible rather than to just shield targets from adverse publicity etc as a result of vexatious litigants, or to circle their own wagons to protect themselves.

Your state MP might be your next stop to discuss the nature of what the NSW government has wrought, in concert with lodging a FOI to see how it goes.

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Thanks for the reply.
I just reread FT’s email: it is proforma; feel good and assures me that my concerns were addressed. How? That is not revealed. What conclusion did FT reach? Again, no conclusion.

I replied asking if an affadavit from me would result in me being better informed of FT’s decision. I also asked how to go about FOI requests.

I was tempted to throw in going to a MP (in my case maybe not the local MP who is of the same party as the Minister of Fair Trading) but instead tell FT that I will go to the opposition. But I did not want to provoke a non response to my queries from FT.

Maybe I should go to the Daily Telegraph, who show a fondness for such stories.

Many (all?) MPs are up front that if you are not in their electorate they don’t want to know you, excepting Ministers who have no choice since they supposedly represent everyone in addition to businesses, developers, and miners.

Opposition candidates and shadow ministers cannot help unless they win government in the next election and remember you.

When one usually goes to their MP the MP sends a note to (eg) FT asking them to respond. Sometimes the response will be direct noting the ‘MP asked’ or get redirected back via the MP’s office to remind you of their value added. Other than their position the MP rarely adds value, but position matters when they ask. Recent reports at ICAC reinforce how it can work.

These two lines from Eddie Cochran’s 1958 hit song, “Summertime Blues”, pretty much sum up politicians.

'Well I called my congressman and he said quote
“I’d like to help you son, but you’re too young to vote” '.

I considered your opinion on writing to my local member, You’re right. I will do so. To ensure I get more than a “thank you for your concern, I will relay it to FT”, I will CC my complaint to the Daily Telegraph or the SMH. Not sure which. That should indicate to my MP that I am fair dinkum about my complaint and don’t want it swept under the carpet by her of NSWFT and if she sits on her hands, then the media may look into the matter. I am very happy to cooperate with the media.

Tonight I will send another complaint to FT about the same agent not disputing my allegation that he paid a committee member $900 without informing the owners corporation of this secret pmt, let alone asking the OC for approval. That way I will have two complaints to refer to in my letter to the MP.

I only discovered the pmt when I sought access to the strata’s records. It was never revealed in the accounts.

It can be fruitful.
Over the previous 5 years I’ve bitten the bullet and had correspondence with all 3 levels of political endeavour, for our locale. I may have been lucky but managed face to face with two of the three incumbents on more than one occasion.

I’ve had modest success getting assistance. They have helped to make contact with the key person/s able to and with the authority to resolve my issues. It can bypass fighting the way up the chain. If it’s not effective in getting resolution, the respective elected officials office usually provides a second chance when they try to close out the original issue. A direct but polite it’s not fixed can be very effective in raising further interest.

Good luck.

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I got a gripe with the strata manager where I live several of the owners have asked again and again about urgent repairs nothing is getting done. Would you suggest i mention tjey have a obligation to repair the damages under the consumer law. Im ready to take it further otherwise stepping it up. I wondered if contact the minister because I don’t trust fair trade. I have no idea what result would convey. Either way the manager has had plenty of time to get it sorted.

Also see

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