Linux: how to get started

My understanding is that Microsoft signed one UEFI shim. What that shim does after that (presumably load GRUB, but maybe Linux) is up to it.

Following the links to the Tails page and beyond suggests that Tails does use GRUB to boot.

As long as GRUB itself doesn’t have to change, maybe Microsoft can’t ruin your day.

However there was a recent (July 2020) vulnerability in GRUB itself and that mess may still be wending its way through the system.

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I reckon this thread has just got bogged down in techo talk about the boot process. So what!!
The main point is from a user experience in doing what you want to do with a computer. MS Windows is pervasive, as are all the various forms of Unix developed over the years and used in Apple devices, most smart phones, and other devices these days. (by the way, Linux started as a stolen variant of Minix, which I ran on my PC way back in 1990 before switching to another variant called Coherent).
So, I just boot up off optical disk when I want to run Unix (Red hat or Ubantu Linux distros), or Windows off hard drive.
If I was to pick one or the other for the normal user who just wants applications to work without any fuss, then Windows is, despite its resource bloat, good.

Something that is often missed.

Although in this topic there is an opportunity for those interested to ask a question or two and get some experienced members replies.

P.S.
We’ve experience with a diverse range of 55+yo Aussies to know there are some basic limits. Microwaves come with auto menus, and buttons labeled “reheat” or “cook” or “pasta” etc, for the obvious! There is no button on a PC or Laptop that says UEFI or Grub. I’m still looking for the one called Linux to sit next to the Windows one near the “space bar”.

Some older Aussies are keen to learn. They mostly learnt by rote hands-on. How technology functions is invisible. It’s a conceptual/virtual world in comparison.

I’ve used Grub to dual boot as well as a USB or DVD to provide an alternate OS. It can go wrong, after which …

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Yes. I will admit that some of us who hang out in this space are nerds. I will also admit that I do not use Linux, FreeBSD or most of the other varieties out there (while noting that Android, iOS and MacOS owe a lot to Unix). I want compatibility above all, and so run Windows.

Of course, experimenting too much with Windows has a habit of breaking things just as thoroughly as one can with Linux.

Oh, and apparently Linux for Windows v2 no longer uses the Windows kernel so does not have a firewall by default. Just a warning for those tinkerers.

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The title of this post thread is “Linux: how to get started”. If you start to carry on about BIOS and UEFI and Grub, then eyes start to glaze over. Even I am bored by that stuff and I’ve dealt with it for decades.
For those who enjoy discussing the ins and outs of the above mentioned things then why not fork off into another thread. Unix people will know what forking off means.

I am surprised that the editor allows us to fork off at all.

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Phew. For a few minutes I thought I was the only one thinking that. :sweat_smile:

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I was expecting an editor to fork this thread.

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So, who has some good, easy, experiences with Linux? For those who want to explore somewhat on a normal PC.

Ubuntu is easy to install or simply run from a DVD/USB stick, and has a lot of support and programs available.

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I sacrificed my 2010 Macbook (white polycarbonate) to Linux Mint 19. 20 was missing many apps that i liked. It was easypeasy with Balena Etcher. No fuss. Its available for Windows, MacOS and Linux itself.

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I used Redhat Linux setup at work. Nice desktop with either gnome or kde. Windows core builtin to run pretty much any Windows programs.
At home I use Ubuntu. Gnome desktop. By default hard to get into any trouble since you don’t have to use the root account for much. It is free so just download the ISO file, burn it onto DVD and boot it up.

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Me. 100% Linux. Basically all Ubuntu - a good choice if you are getting started with Linux.

This topic woke up because Choice wrote an article about using Tails, which I would not consider an ideal way of getting started with Linux.

As far as installing and booting Linux is concerned, bear in mind that many people would also fail if they had to install Windows themselves. But this topic is about getting started with Linux, not Windows.

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I’ve previously noted limited options to purchase laptops supplied with Linux preinstalled and configured. Is it reasonable to assume that there are also PC suppliers who will provide a preconfigured desktop to suit a users needs? Also a choice of suitable distribution and one or more options of desktop?

My experiences with laptops and Linux have produced mediocre outcomes. Notably issues with drivers for wifi, the USB ports or graphics chIpsets. Audio has also been a concern.

One solution for the less IT interested to give an older device new purpose may be the local PC Nerd shop. Fee for service and assuming they are more Nerd than sales guru. Finding a reliable one?

Other options?

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As far as I know, the only mainstream laptop (or desktop) vendor offering Linux preinstalled, configured, working and supported is Dell e.g. Computers, Monitors & Technology Solutions | Dell USA

Otherwise you are looking at niche suppliers like System76 or Purism, and importing it yourself from the US - and the dollars start to mount up, particularly at current exchange rates.

For a likely easier life … stick with Intel i.e. Intel miniPCIe WiFi card and Intel integrated graphics. That applies to any laptop, not just Dell.

Regardless, it costs you no dollars to try with any laptop. Live Boot Ubuntu off USB. If everything that you need to work works, great. If not, no harm done.

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Tails worked for me.

For Linux, create the bootable USB using Gnome Disks (Restore Disk Image). Gnome Disks should be installed by default if your distro of Linux uses Gnome as its desktop environment.

The WiFi worked out of the box.

MAC spoofing worked. However in my environment that would mean a limited number of reboots before the router would run out of IP addresses to give me. Don’t know what happens then. (You can turn MAC spoofing off if need be.)

Hey, even TOR worked - and it is kind of cool seeing whatismyip.com report my location as Tallinn (Estonia) or Amsterdam or Vienna. However the novelty wears off after a while because TOR is slow.

It’s not like I actually am a dissident in a country where discovery will result in a few years in a reharmonisation camp.

There are a range of other inconveniences with Tails. To my mind, the trade-offs between security/privacy and convenience are not right for the average user.

Another consideration is that niche Linux distributions can be a bit behind in patches. So while you might have top notch security and privacy, you might have some serious unpatched vulnerability that undermines all that.

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Shh…ASIO are watching you @person

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‘I’ve heard it said’ - better to hide in plain sight if you have something to hide - if you don’t have something to hide, much easier to live in plain sight, but seriously ask yourself, ‘do I really have something to hide, and from whom’ - the more sinister it becomes, I’d suggest the less chance there is of really hiding it. Making oneself ‘interesting’ by trying to avoid being noticed sometimes results in increased attention … there are plenty of people giving advice re online security, one notable person who many hold up as the poster child of success who now ‘lives the high life’ in Russia (ahem) … I guess ‘success’ is how one spins it :wink: (not all successful used-car salespeople are necessarily ‘bright’) …

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And thus the reason for more people to take steps to protect their privacy regardless of whether they feel a personal need to do so. If you have a pile of needles, it is easy to pick out needles. Put them in a haystack, and those who really need privacy are much harder to find amidst the noise.

As for the nothing to hide/nothing to fear mantra, I personally do not want a government following my every move or filming me in the shower. Or, as put so nicely by John Oliver in his interview with Edward Snowden, see my personally revealing photos (not that I am stupid enough to take such photos with or without an Internet-connected device, but there was a man-on-the-street that Oliver’s crew found to be quite put out by this particular revelation).

And for those of us who miss Oliver on The Bugle, he has at least partially made up for that loss in his new TV slot. Here’s the Snowden episode.

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… refer my comment re used-car salespeople …

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