CHOICE membership

How market forces have failed the nation (its citizens and consumers)



Is Alan Jones a market force? Gambling is a market, I guess.


I think you have an inadvertent misspelling: ‘force’ should be with an ‘a’ not an ‘o’. :grin:


K[quote=“n3m0, post:61, topic:16065”]
Is Alan Jones a market force?
What ever “He-who-must-not-be-named” is, I suspect he does not need any further enhancement of his profile.

More than 235,000 individuals would challenge what he represents. I’m not buying what he is selling.

Apologies to Harry Potter fans.


… as someone who long ago spent a lot of time trading wax for waves, and spent enough time looking for the surface from below, I’ve never understood how market forces would be any different, and/or any more predictable. It’s a wave we choose to ride, and we submit to whatever it brings. Part of it is within our control - some of the finer trims, but the big patterns seem outside of everyone’s control, none more so than those who try to convince us they are ‘in control’ - it’s all ok until it isn’t … so many are waiting for Superboy to take his plutonium wife, maybe they don’t know how lucky they really are? :wink: I don’t believe we live in the shadows people would have us believe …


The metaphor of surfing as life has some good points. The obvious, that no matter how much you develop strength and skill the waves are still in charge is good to learn, sadly some never do.

One clear difference is that while waves do rise and then break, with a pattern but also a random element, the ebb and flow is unlike the market in that the fluctuations in waves are not self reinforcing. It is human belief that works upon itself that exaggerates market rises into booms well above value and falls into crashes well below.

To go down this rabbit hole try “The Black Swan” by Taleb.


Overly generous, perhaps. In my view, less belief than stupidity. There’s nothing intrinsically wrong about market forces. They’re a powerful set of tools, but I’ve heard them likened to a bag of hammers. Not the best tool for every job. Not every problem is a nail.

To me, market forces are more like wild beasts than ocean waves. Like market forces, there’s nothing wrong with a shark or a crocodile. Pass your child to one though and it’s likely to be cared for in ways that you didn’t intend.

I believe we live in the shadows of people, foolish and evil. For this forum, that’s relevant only in its impacts on consumers. Among others, the Banking Royal Commission bears me out well enough.


Hey Mark. You may have missed a ‘not’ in you first sentence. I think you meant to say “…he does NOT need…”.


Thanks @meltam6554. Glad you saw past the obvious. I have made the edit.


Some may choose to ride the wave of market forces. Many of us realise that we are given no choice in the matter, and our elected ‘representatives’ pay lip service to democracy while spending their time and our money on the few who keep them in power - such as the afore-mentioned shock jock, but more often people whose names we do not even know.

“The market” is not some self-managed, all-wise entity - no matter what your economics texts might say. The only reason its booms and busts (as mentioned by @syncretic) are not all the greater is that we the people bail out the businesses that have taken their risks to earn more money.

For more on this I recommend books by J K Galbraith, as well as John Pilger and Noam Chomsky. I also suggest reading Friendly Fascism, Capital in the Twenty-First Century, 23 Things They Don’t Tell You about Capitalism, and that classic The Prince. (I have not yet got to The Black Swan, but it is in my library along with the other two books in Taleb’s series.)


We always have a choice. There are always options … we might not like them, they may not seem practical or palatable, but they always exist.

I’m thinking that was my point … you ride the wave for what it is, nobody knows and certainly the wave doesn’t … when you are dumped you hold your breath and hope you gasped enough before you went under :slight_smile:

I mostly rode the ‘breaks’ on the south coast of SA, between Victor and the Murray Mouth - it’s much more like the financial market as I perceive it than the nice clean surf at Cactus :slight_smile:


Is there an alternative? What choices do most of us have?

Are there?

If popular culture is any guide, we’re losing the capacity to even imagine a way out of the looming dystopia.


The view from Britain. Australia’s different, of course. :roll_eyes:


We always have a choice - or more specifically, we are always presented with choices. Of course there may be no fork in our road, and I’d contend there is never actually a fork in our road unless we open choice to random coin toss, in itself a choice, but the choices are always presented, few or many. To me it’s tied in with having no regrets - I might choose differently now based on past experience, but that is now, not then.

Like, hypothetically, if I went to a masquerade ball and was a silly boy in some embarrassing way, I might leave hastily and come back later with a different mask on, but with the wisdom of hindsight and the freedom to choose, I wouldn’t want to be a silly boy again in a hurry would I? And for me, I would try hard to own my mistakes and have no regrets - I might even out myself as the former silly boy and have a laugh … Forums/communities can be like a masquerade ball sometimes …