Hi @davidlcleland, I merged your post into this longer standing one of the same topic. The banks actually made all cash withdrawals from all Australian banks fee-free, and now with their removing ATMs in favour of privately operated ones that is effectively reversed courtesy of the P/L of the private operator(s).
A number of banks such as ING, Macquarie, and others rebate ATM fees so if your situation is amenable consider changing banks to one that rebates the fees.
Yeah, changing banks is always an option. I have been with the NAB for over 50 years but I am brand loyal. I guess my writing this post is to sway the big 4, not just mine to revert back to no fees or to put back one of the big 4 ATM’s in these shopping malls.
Banks are profit driven, to seek change when all the big ones have a strangle hold on banking there has to be some driver of change outside their boardrooms. Complaints to make them change are like water off that proverbial duck’s back, it just runs off. The only way to make them change habits is to get the Federal Government to force change by using their Government Instruments eg APRA and legislation to create the requirement. It is a very faint hope that changing from a bank to another will drive them to change what all of them are doing now. If we want change, we must make it so our Federal Reps do the job we want them to and give the requirement, power, and authority to create the change.
I was not aware they had changed the policies for their own operated ATMs. The charges are levied by independent businesses operating generic third party ATMs and some second tier institutions.
This matrix on Finder could be useful. (last updated Dec 2021)
That would be nice but at the end of the day their only obligation is maximising shareholder value and public interest issues are generally absent or close enough from their corporate KPIs. In a competitive world customers would vote with their feet but our markets continue to operate as if consumers have no windows to the world, or business’ antics. Even ‘rearranging deck chairs’ seems to become more window dressing than not.
We should also realise that businesses are not charities, they not only charge for a service but also expect to make a profit from it.
Make a profit - yes. But how much profit? Surely the issue in Australia is the total lack of “effective” competition, and the largely ineffective regulators appointed in near monopoly markets (e.g. air travel, banking, insurance, energy). Our past rulers (and I include both major parties) were very keen to privatise public companies because the theory was competition would keep prices in check. Well, we consumers now know we were sold a pup.
We all try to look at the big picture, whether we are minor or major contributors to the CHOICE Community. At the ‘big picture’ level you appear to be saying that cash withdrawal services should be free - at least to the consumer. That remains the case in a lot of circumstances, including your local bank branch or major supermarket duopoly.
The trouble, as @syncretic stated, is TANSTAAFL:
If accessing your money is ‘free’ at the point of access, someone is still paying. It may be you, getting a lower interest rate on your savings than otherwise. It may be shareholders, earning a lower rate of return.
As long as we remain a capitalist economy, we will pay for services provided to us from businesses that are there to make a profit. If you want to change this, then lobby government to nationalise the banks and pass all costs onto taxpayers. (Good luck with that.)
As much as you can get away with! Australia has not always been well served by its financial institutions, and they have faced a lot of scrutiny over the years. They face regulation that seeks to ensure they do not form cartels or otherwise conduct operations in a manner that punishes the consumer, and there have been no recent scandals suggesting that Australian banks are cahooting any more than international banks.
The fact remains: there is a profit motive, and privately funded businesses are required by law to set their shareholders’ returns above the interests of the consumer. I am not sure what else you might expect.
I am still amazed that there are supposed Defenders and Champions of CONSUMERS here who think their role is to DEFEND service providers, retailers, industry, gov’t and manufacturers, to the CHOICE audience. Treating us as if we are wet behind the ears! Talk about taking coals to Newcastle, teach grandmothers how to suck eggs and all the other applicable ‘sayings’, to counter such dribble. Choice members are here because we are consumer literate. If a service has been free for centuries, and now a 3rd party is making money replacing that service, if it looks like, smells like, feels like, fails the pub test, the probability is, it is a RIP OFF, ie, not defensible! Instead support, champion, defend the consumer.
Be intersting to know why people feel they have a need to use these machines that charge. Even more so today where virtually every place you go to debit or credit cards.
If I needed to pay somebody an amount cash, I could have immediate transfer to their bank account by Osko.
You can go into Coles and Woolworths and many other supermarkets and get $200.00. Many Australia Post outlets you can get money without a charge if your bank has an agreement with Australia Post.
Cash in the main is dead - except for people purchasing illegal drugs and criminals.
When a consumer has an issue there is a concerted effort to advise and support. When a consumer has what may be a jaundiced view that is seemingly unrealistic or does not appear to take all evidence into consideration, the member may encounter a discussion they may not agree with, but that makes it neither wrong nor unsupportive.
When you hear something from the Community you do not agree with
They do not. Your complaints about 3rd party ATM fees ignore that there is a cost to them that banks increasingly are unwilling to pay either directly or indirectly so they are closing/reducing their numbers. That creates an opportunity for independent businesses to step in and provide the service with a transparent fee added. Some banks, especially the online banks, rebate the fees and many, mostly traditional banks, do not.
It is the consumers choice whether to patronise the 3rd party ATM that is and operates like a small business, much like any other small business, or to use Colesworths or other shops that will give cash back during a debit transaction, or to find a free bank supported ATM. Balances are also available on web sites and phone apps, both usually convenient as well as free (excepting for network charges).
As is discussed elsewhere cash is becoming less used so the debit/credit card, all electronic, are making inroads on the need for cash noting my old topic about the cashless society.
Sometimes the member may prevail in these discussions and sometimes the member may best step back and have a think. Choice posted a poll back in 2017 that garnered a modest response here, if you have not seen it, linked previously by @mark_m.
Having been involved with ATMs in the past, they are not cheap for banks to operate.
And there has always been a charge put on users to use them. In the early days, a bank would allow a certain number of ATM transactions per month for free. After that a charge. If you used an ATM that was not your banks, then a charge.
RBA stepped in and said charges should represent the actual cost of interbank use, and the banks reduced or dumped the ATM charges.
But your transaction account used to access ATMs either had a monthly service charge, or had effectively zero interest.
You are paying for the service in one way or another.
Non-bank ATMs just put the cost in your face, rather than hiding the cost for service elsewhere.
Well no. It was never free and nor has it been around for centuries. You seem to have missed the point that such machines and their maintenance cost money. Users will either pay for it implicitly, though a service provider like a bank who recovers it elsewhere, or explicitly by a surcharge. You have never ever got this for free.
Withdrawing money and getting info about the account has been free since banking begun, centuries!!
