The international airports use it but that’s the immigration section and it’s to do with the bio-metrics stored on the latest international standard passports.
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That’s it! I’m cancelling my travel plans forever.
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Has it ever occurred that once out of the country and off the flight at the other end the GOA has absolutely no idea where you are or what you are doing?
Out of sight out of mind. Fortunately when home even Telstra only knows where we are 99.4% of the time.
I’m reassured every time I talk with our mobile provider who red flags me because our shared account is registered to the wise one. If Siri could be upgraded to respond to visual input as well as voice prompts, my problem would be solved! 
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I dont know how relevant is this, but coles and Woolworths new self-checkout machines are equipped with face detection cameras that detect the face. I don’t know if they use a database and store the biometrics but if I was a betting person, I bet they do. also, I know most of these cameras and software are designed and most likely operated by foreign companies mostly Chinese tech companies.
there is a great Free documentary on the DW channel regarding the mass surveillance and issues regarding that I highly recommend everyone to watch, China - Surveillance state or way of the future?
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Welcome to the community @ka_who
Are you able to help us understand and clarify what you were saying about the Australian supermarkets?
EG
Which surveillance products/systems do Woolies and Coles use?
Can you name the software providers and provide details of where are they from?
I’m not a betting person. There is an ongoing public discussion over use of camera technology at checkouts. Woolworths has specifically responded it is not storing images of it’s customers.
‘Woolworths trials new cameras to 'watch over' customers at self-serve checkout | Seniors Discount Club
The ABC had this take on where we are at as a follow on from the Choice action earlier this week.
P.S. for those wondering about who or what DW is.
The linked article provided by @ka_who is long and a YouTube of the content produced by DW, about the evolution of the surveillance state in China. It’s presented with a distinct German flavour. It is interesting generally and politically, but not about Woolies and Coles collecting or providing our identities to China. The same content accessible by searching DW’s web site. Search using the article and date released. The site is very large.
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I’m always bemused by the thought that the government actually has the equipment and capability to pursue nefarious investigations. They have sacked so many public service personnel and handed over to private enterprise any work that they possibly could in the name of economic rationale. Conspiracy theorists would have you believe that we are being monitored 24/7 by the govt. And yet video footage ostensibly put up to catch criminals always seem to have a default guy in a hoodie lurking in shadows. The camera angles are always awkwardly never at face level so identification is near impossible. Add in face masks, scarves, sunglasses and the fact that my iPhone regularly fails to recognise me as its owner by both facial recognition and fingerprint says we are not there yet. I will however check where the cameras are in Bunnings and Kmart because I’ll bet even if they are there, the security staff to deal with whatever they might capture will probably render the exercise too expensive to actually act on.
So for the time being I think I’ll just carry on as normal and my advice for budding criminals is, wear a hoodie and don’t look for the camera or maybe just protect yourself from prosecution and Covid by wearing a face mask.
Cynical moi? Never!
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The voice of reason. Not sure I agree with all you claim, however, its a stabalizing post. Its true that its very easy to push hearsay and subsequently thoughts to conspiracies. The growing fear of loosing ones privacy surprises me a bit, in many cases public monitoring can be to our own benefit. Observing police or militia patrolling the streets with weapons should’nt be a threat but may be seen more as a protection. Having said that I am the first to complain about the FBooks of the world gathering private details not only visually but everything else that is considered private information and storing those details infact trading them. Our world is changing faster than we can keep up. if anyone ever wants to test the camera monitoring theory then engage and argue with a airport check-in clerk and watch as the 5 nondescript persons slowly emerge and move towards you, waiting to escalate a security threat, as the argument heats up identification algorithms are triggered and they move slightly closer. My suggestion is you dont try it, best just to know it’s the standard security process these days.
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All well and good to talk about this, but most of the resposes are completely unreasonable. Worrying that these retailers are going to use this to know what stuff you are buying from their stores is stupid… They already know! unless you wear a tinfoil hat and pay for everything with cash of course. The interview with Alan Kirkland was a pathetic attempt to drum up unfounded hysteria. Facial recognition could in theory automatically flag if someone has attended 4 bunnings stores in 1 day for example that may be considered suspicious, it could flag someone that has previously been cought stealing, or has been banned form another store. If Bunnings catch someone stealing at a bunnings store, it might be possible to tie them to many other thefts by enabling the review of footage accross multiple stores that otherwise would have been impossible and would bave gone unnoticed. So unless you are stealing from the stores, stop worrying about it.
I agree that in this case there is probably little to be worried about. But little is not nothing.
To a degree I accept the argument that if you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to fear. The trouble is that it assumes that governments or corporations will always keep data about us safe and that they will never use it improperly. Both of these assumptions have been shown to not be true in some cases. The more we allow organisations to have the more they will want so we lose privacy through exposure becoming normalised by small degrees.
The amount of data we ought to allow to be captured and the circumstances of that need to be discussed and agreed to openly. We don’t have that in this case. I don’t accept that because the risk is low discussions are not needed. If all is fair and above board then they ought to take time to convince me of that - not just go ahead and do it.
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The self-service stores have created a monster which they say is making them lose a lot of money through shoplifting. So they started by ‘checking your bags’, progressed to ‘checking your receipt and items bought’, and now it’s ‘facial recognition’. Their approach doesn’t seem to be working much, otherwise there’d be no need to escalate methods of detection. What next: Full body scanning?
I’d like to see them come up with something to catch shoplifters which doesn’t involve treating me like a thief. Personal liberties are taken away little by little and can never be recovered, especially by the innocents.
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I can confirm that facial recognition is being used at Woolworths and Coles in Southport as well. I enquired about it two days ago and asked how I could complain. I object to my biometric information being collected by any large retailer, especially when I have not provided my consent and nor am I told how this information will be used, stored or shared.
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Well if some stores want to play games with facial recognition, at best limited, and at worst useless, then I will wear my prescription glasses, which happen to be dark for driving, and wear my facemask for good virus spreading protection.
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Careful: that might be seen as going into their store with bad intentions!
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Well probably more acceptable than wearing a present I got for Christmas one year.
The Goucho Marx look.
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Welcome @Wanderlustbydesign!
About being consulted: I don’t remember any about having bags or receipt checked. With bags I remember signs making it a condition of entry to have our bags checked. No written signs about checking receipts, that I’m aware of.
Now it’s Facial recognition: just simply a progression of invasion of privacy!
What has happened to in-store security officers that could be called by the Staff if anyone was seen stealing? I remember a holiday job at a clothing store where we were told to alert the office if we saw any shoplifting, never approach ourselves, and the guard would wait for them to leave the store with the unpaid items before stopping them, otherwise the excuse was that they were just about to go and pay. What about a few security officers around the store to stop organised ‘family’ shoplifting? This obsession with having no Staff around has meant the loss of privacy by honest shoppers.
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That might do the trick!
In theory that is correct, but facial recognition is not as accurate as it needs to be for profiling customers in a setting where ‘the technology has 100% trust for 100% accuracy by the staff’.
While this is from the US it highlights some (not all) issues with how recognition fails people of colour. It could be a similar issue in our multicultural society where the algorithms have to account for a broad range of race and colour, and be fair.
There have been a lot of wins for facial recognition but when it goes bad, it is problematic for the affected person(s). An example (from the US again) - subscription walled but most should be able to read the one article.
I could imagine our aboriginal community being similarly affected if not also others and perhaps our police would do better detective work than those from NYC and Detroit prior to making an arrest?
An article from the scholarly journal Nature address some of it.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03186-4
and this focuses on the bias aspects.
The bottom line is even computers/phone with facial recognition login often mistake a ‘looking similar’ face so there is a secondary password or PIN to make sure the image is who it thinks it is. A shop could call security and detain or expel someone as a result of a false positive. Therein lies the problem at retail shops. They have no expertise and will trust the software, and the misidentified customer has no immediate recourse as a practical matter.
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You are incredibly trusting. Ask any African American whether they see police as being there to protect them. Similarly, Aboriginal communities in Australia generally see police as a threat - and for good reason based on long experience.
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Since you cut of all my qualifications and further comments it isn’t worth the trouble.
You’re right. I was skimming through all the posts in this thread, and those words are a bit of a trigger for me - I failed to check context. I’ll delete that section of my post.
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