Electric and Alternative Vehicle Fuels

If you read the links, slower than heavier-than-air craft, but faster than cargo ships. IIRC, one of the companies was aiming for 150 km/h (riding the jet-stream) cruising speed. Particularly attractive when the cargo provides both buoyancy and fuel. If the hydrogen economy is to become a reality, then this is one application for which there’s no practical substitute (OK, two applications in one).

If you will be parking your shiny new EV on the street, you wiill need to find nearby charging stations to keep your EV going.

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An Australian answer to an oft-repeated assertion (which has been repeatedly addressed overseas).

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More on a familiar subject:

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Hypothetical question: replace all the ICE vehicles with BEVs without increasing or decreasing the number of vehicles & usage - would the overall electricity consumption associated with the vehicles go up or down?
Answer: it would go down.
Because it takes over 2.1kWh of electricity to get 1 litre of petrol into the fuel tank of an ICE (somewhat different figure for diesel); due to the electricity used to mine & transport & refine & transport etc the liquid fuels.

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OK but how does that make the total electricity use go down? How much electricity does it take to drive the electric car the same distance as that litre of petrol?

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An article regarding NSW and Victoria considering taxing electric vehicles.

There is an interesting proposal towards the end of the ABC article that does make some sense. Regardless of how it is done all road users need to contribute in some way to the cost of the road network proportional to use. Perhaps there is another way?

Instead of simply penalising electric vehicle owners, I suggest an approach where electric vehicle owners could voluntarily opt-in to a new road tax model. Here’s how it would work:

  • The tax would include a low per-kilometre fee for all travel, and an additional fee for inner-city travel during peak weekday periods.*
  • In exchange for opting in, owners would be exempted from the old road tax system, that is: vehicle registration, stamp duty, import tax, luxury car tax, fringe benefits tax, fuel excise, and road tolls.

There is more in the ABC report.

The suggestion goes partway to overcoming the greatest current barrier to EV ownership. The initial up front cost of purchase is beyond many, despite the lower running costs. Cheap to run vehicles benefit those less well off more than those of us with deeper pockets.

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It may not go down overall as a BEV uses about 15 kWh (an average figure) per 100 km (average is 150 Wh per km) and an lowish average L/100 km is around 5 or so for ICE (taking into account PHEV, Motorbikes and other small engine vehicles). If you use higher L/km figures the benefits of BEV are more likely. There are more efficient BEV drives now but using the larger average to take into account the less efficient models out there now. Hyundai Ioniq Electric as an example uses 15.7 kWh per 100 km, Tesla is less at around currently 15.1 kWh (down, due to efficiencies made, from 22 kWh).

Using these figures to travel 100 km by fuel you would need about 10.5 kWh of power based on @vombatis figures for production etc of fuel (2.1 kWh per L). So not break even on power cost with a BEV needing about 5kWh more energy. CO2 & other GHG emissions however in using BEVs would be much lower considering fugitive emissions etc of fuel plus the burning of the fuel once in the ICE vehicle. If you use 7L/100km for ICE the figures change to almost break even energy used wise, and ICE has increased GHG emissions as more fuel is burnt…

Link below is the for the figures used to quote the averages above (EU based so please excuse the Euros and costings).

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Battery Electric Vehicles are already very efficient.
The balance between BEV and ICE is unlikely to change much into the future.

Unless there is a new light weight battery technology and our rule makers encourage light weight electric utility vehicles (500-750kg).
As a comparison.
Modern Aust Road legal battery powered cars typically weigh more than 1,500-2,000kg.

Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles may come closer to competing on weight with ICE, however the overall conversion efficiency from solar, wind etc to electric motor power lags battery options substantially.

An interesting aside.
Simplistically there is approx 1.5 ICE powered light vehicle per Australian residence.
Average distance travelled per vehicle per year is approx 12,000km.
Or 18,000km per household per year.

Using the average of 15kWh of electricity at source per 100km how much electrical power does that require? 2,700kWh pa.

Irrespective of where the vehicles are charged that is approx 7.4KWh per day. Compared with the average residential consumption of electricity (approx 12.6kWh) it would require a more than 50% increase in purchased electricity or installed household solar etc.

True there may be some offsets through electricity consumed in providing fossil fuels being eliminated.

It would be interesting to see how this figure is determined. With 40c typical per litre for excise, plus 13c/l gst plus 2x15c per litre for the electricity;
It would seem that the approx 60c remaining on a $1.40 per litre retail price goes a long long way to cover all the costs from the oil well to the bowser?

Mount Franklin Mineral water out of the ground locally can cost ten times as much😳

Consumption per 100 kilometres:
For 100 kilometres petrol vehicle (V8) consumes 46.2 kWh and 22 litre of fuel
For 100 kilometres petrol vehicle (4 cyl) consumes 18.9 kWh and 9 litre of fuel
For 100 kilometres electric vehicle consumes 16.4 kWh
(real life figures, neither petrol vehicle has the torque or acceleration of the EV)

Read Grahroll’s analysis - if you are going to include the lower consumption of petrol bikes & small vehicles to calculate an average then you need to also include the lower consumption of electric bicycles and electric motorbikes and the nifty little electric delivery vans to lower the other average. Oranges and oranges!

By all means compare like with like. How about laying it out for me. Show me for the same sized vehicle the consumption of electricity for an ICE and an EV. You are saying for the EV it is lower, show me the numbers.

Without saying these numbers are reliable or otherwise.

Note:
Australia now imports the greater portion of its diesel and more than half of its petrol needs.

Is the electricity consumed in production and refining even relevant when it is all overseas electricity?
In respect of local electrical demand reduction the benefit to Australia would appear to be very small. :thinking:

What ever the absolute numbers, it does not change the high cost of purchasing a BEV.

Is the electricity consumed relevant? Well it depends on a local or a World view. If we are looking to decrease the use of fossil fuels used in generation and transport fuels across the World then yes the electricity consumed is very relevant. If you only consider local then no it isn’t a saving of electricity but it is a saving in regards to GHG emissions.

To consider savings on pricing 7.4 kWh per day at 26c kWh (to cover daily charges as well) is about $1.924 per day so a weekly cost of $13.46 per vehicle per household bill. Based on the yearly average km travelled an ICE car travels an average on 32.87 km or nearly 1/3 of 100 km so about 1.64 L/day. At 1.46 per L this is a daily cost of $2.39 or a weekly cost of $16.76. Electricity saves around $3.30 per week or $171.60 a year. If the Elec is free (less capital costs) eg solar or free recharging stations it is much cheaper again and so more savings.

BEV costs continue to decrease as more are made. ATM the costs are higher but when ICE vehicles started their introduction they were a luxury item, Ford made the move to consumer level car ownership and this will be a similar thing for BEV as they become more popular.

As to the kWh claims of refining this is a calculation from US Govt data as to the energy cost to produce the petrol:

"It is commonly known that a barrel of crude oil generate approximately 45 gallons of refined product (refer to NAS, 2009, (www.nap.edu) Hidden Costs of Energy: Unpriced Consequences of Energy Production and Use, The National Academies Press, Table 3-4 for a publication stating so).

Thus, using an 85% refinery efficiency and the aforementioned conversion factors, it can be estimated that about 21,000 Btu – the equivalent of 6 kWh – of energy are lost per gallon of gasoline refined:

"

Nissan re the Leaf EV now quote about 7 kWh per litre for petrol refining etc for the energy cost. Perhaps they are taking into account the long distance shipping costs we also face that perhaps the US have somewhat a cheaper outcome from??

Which is perhaps the best reason. It is a simple moral decision independent of cost?

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Cost still though just on paying Elec fees for recharging would be a close to break even or slightly cheaper to be EV cars than to refill ICE vehicles.

But yes the moral grounds would be much better BEV wise than ICE re GHG.

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Now here is a hybrid vehicle which really performs.

Pity they are all already sold.

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Even better, these days get the right brand of gift card from Santa and they don’t expire, ever! Only 999 more Christmas’s to go and I can afford one. :wink:

P.S.
Just noting that 110kph is our common legal limit, although given our goat tracks we call highways, it might be a rough ride at even that speed.

It’s still a hybrid that sucks high octane premium like a 747 at take-off.

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But at £1.75 million plus local taxes a pop, this is one I am happy to let someone else buy.

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Rolls Royce plans to launch a battery powered aircraft in 2020.

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