The Thread title relates to the Choice review, of the same Title. Choice chose to make that a comparison of the speed and volume advertised by the providers package and what the data records by users of each package using the NBN app. That data may also have the capacity to tell users whether they are actually using the speed and volume, implying that the data could tell users whether they have the package they need, and hence, possibly save them significant monthly fees - a core aspect of consumer advocacy. Package choice, for many, has been based on marketing rather than need, again a core role of Choice to separate market pressure for consumers, into fact driven choice.
1 Like
The data in that review is all about actual download and upload speeds achieved compared to what RSP package you are paying for.
NBN would have no idea what speed a specific user actually needs, nor would Choice, although there are some good guidelines available for speed required based on generic profiles.
Perhaps your RSP has some metrics on speed utilisation of your connection; they will certainly have data use metrics.
3 Likes
Iâm with Exetel and was on 25/5 which I was quite happy with but when 50/20 was offered at no additional cost (they were deleting the lower speed), I went with that. I noticed the other day that the 25/5 is back, and $10 cheaper, so Iâm switching back. I have not been able to achieve the speeds I theoretically had, even though I am only 400M from the node.
5 Likes
I donât know precisely what data NBN will collect with their app, but am asking the question here as a consumer, whether it can be used to extrapolate the pattern of use. Based on that pattern it seems feasible that one might be able to deduce the package required rather than package marketed? Armed with new knowledge the user, like @SueW has done could then opt for a cost saving package.
2 Likes
As a general strategy buying any plan and seeing how you go with it and then adjusting the plan upward or downwards is usually only the click of a mouse or touch of a finger, or at worst a phone call.
Relying on any report of what if or averages required for this and that is advisory and a place to start, but with all the RSPs within about $10 of each other for any particular plan level, considering what support they provide and their overall packages would be more rewarding for most than trying to get the absolutely most economical plan for their needs from day 1.
Beyond economy many of us are happy with unlimited plans just so we donât have to worry about data traffic. Some will discover based on their use over a month or few that they only use 200 MB or a few GBs and can save some money by downgrading. Others might reinforce they use âunlimitedâ data because of their 24x7 streaming.
As for speed? It is dependent on the MTM and to a lesser extent on the RSPs servers and infrastructure on what you pay for vs what you actually get. Those interested in speed can routinely run speedtest checks or watch the âbuffering iconsâ during peak times. Even the best of the RSPs will be limited by the NBN MTM coming to each premise especially during prime time when you have HFC or FTTN+derivatives, FW or shudder, SkyMuster, mostly competing for under resourced NBN lines. No plan will overcome an intrinsic NBN limitation but might reduce its severity. On the flip, not wanting to pay for what one will not get as a practical matter requires monitoring oneâs individual situation and adjusting accordingly.
4 Likes
@PhilT
Why are you trying negate the need for deriving better information to aid consumer choice?
My point is NOT about switching to alternative providers within a plan level, that is totally different topic.
My point is about getting better information from real data to choose the best plan level needed, particularly when marketing is based on providing the most expensive plan instead of the least expensive, the latter possibly meeting most users needs. Iâm glad that once armed with that info, that making the change is then easy, âa click of the mouseâ! What about âthose who donât need the speed and volumeâ
I donât believe most households need unlimited plans, but many have them, because they knew no better, when the marketing hit them.
Your last para about âspeedâ is the what the Choice article focuses upon, ie, giving consumers the info they need beyond merely an individuals speed check at a particular moment.
You misunderstand. Information is always good, but if the information is not much value added at what cost does it become warranted?
The quarterly ACCC reports provide the performance in multiple ways. A consumer needs to discover their data requirements. This other topic includes links to those reports as issued.
Attributes that can be measured are being measured.
That is true, but it is not always from ignorance, sometimes it is for convenience as I indicated - unlimited? then no worries on data and some consumers would be satisfied.
An analogy might be car insurance. It is cheaper if you buy 5000km p.a. than unlimited. But if you might take a tour around Australia you could be inclined to buy an unlimited km or 15,000km policy as a form of insurance so as to not be caught out. And so it goes with some households and data. eg one less thing to worry about, albeit at a cost (that could be avoided if one knew precisely where and how often they would drive in the upcoming policy period).
As the NBN (especially) has forced more consumers to become tech savvy some do, and others are willing to pay a premium to avoid having to. YMMV (obviously) but I will agree to disagree that much of anything beyond a real world monthly statement can authoritatively advise a consumer how much data they actually need/use.
Since that is the case Iâll step away from this topic.
5 Likes
My ACCC Whitebox results show my package is appropriate to our wants. Every month our usage is currently between 3 and 4 TB (between 24 and 32 Terabits per month but one month we went to over 10 TB (80 Tb)) and on a rising trend. With over 12 devices connected at any one time including Smart devices eg tablets and phones, IoT devices, Computers, two Smart TV devices streaming, we still notice buffering. We also donât use our mobile data while we are within our WiFi networkâs reach as we get better overall service using WiFi. For reference our package is FTTP 1000/50 Mbps Unlimited. Test data used every month by the Whitebox is about 170 GB, this data usage is relative to the tier ie a lower speed tier and bandwidth will result in lower testing data usage.
It is easy to say we think most people need less, maybe they do and maybe they donât but I have yet to see any definite research about what people need. I think people would use more if they could use more, many are limited by the tech that connects them. That old saying comes to mind â what youâve never had you never missâ. Sure, some are happy with less. If they can save a bit by choosing the lower level that is a great outcome. The catch may be that a penalty applies (usually speed capping to around 256 Kbps or the cost of buying a data add on for the month) if they exceed the limits imposed or find quality of the results are less than desired.
To assess the true needs needs a lot more research than CHOICE could reasonably undertake. So if a user is happy on 25/5 and a limited limit and it meets their needs and saves money I think that is great. If they donât know what a higher speed could do or canât get a better speed is that a reason to think that is all they could use. Many who may wish for more are often limited in their ability to get more.
Evolving tech requires more and more bandwidth and speeds become more important as well. If we wish to remain somewhat behind in development then remaining at lower levels is an acceptable choice. If we wish to get on the front foot then we need to change.
3 Likes
I agree, we are limited for speed more by the technology offered (only one option for most).
The differences between most providers are a few dollars for similar services.
The two things that matter most:
- Who provides the best customer service and experience?
- Which of the technology options available to our site/home deliver an adequate and reliable service?
There after one can change the speed tiers with most providers based on outcome. Start on the slowest/lowest cost and step up if it is not delivering. Note some service providers appear to automatically package added products at higher speeds, whether one needs the package or not. Value added debatable?
Would I pay more for higher speeds?
If it was upload - likely because NBN Fixed Wireless is prioritised for downloads. We are on the top tier available. For another discussion.
4 Likes
CA doesnât necessarily HAVE to do the research. Rather they can, often do, represent the needs of consumers to retailers, organisations, govât.
Easy to say, âif we wish to get on the front footâŚâ. But, CA exists because, many canât afford that, but may need too as you imply, that in doing so it may be poor value, poor quality, etc.
âYet to see any definitive research about what people useâ - THANK YOU my point exactly, needed but not available - but the whitebox might be a potential source of extrapolating such data - you seem to be, but only a few have white boxes!.
12 devices - I couldnât even afford to own 12 devices, let alone need bandwidth for them. Some research was done about energy usage in various WA suburbs. A surprising outcome was in the middle-class but affluent suburbs, many had heaps of solar, and yet bragged about their enormous power bills, rather than the savings and their efforts to reduce power usage.
1 Like
Any reasonably knowledgable network designer could work out what speed and data allowance would be needed.
Certain needs require other factors to be considered like high network latency (Skymuster) and what level of connection sharing will be imposed through multiplexing (HFC, FTTN) that will see you get buffering problems no matter what speed your local connection has.
1 Like
I donât understand why some posters here seem to oppose consumers being given better information, based of usage, so that they get the most appropriate package level.
One doesnât need to be a pilot in order to buy the best airline service.
This is consumer advocacy group!
1 Like
Now to be fair, Choice has published many articles about the NBN, and plans by RSPs, and tested, and is certainly concerned that consumers get what they are paying for.
Members of this Community offer advice and experience on various specific issues and more general issues.
You can choose to avail yourself of this information. Or not.
I think I shall also leave this topic to you @longinthetooth and cease replying.
Hi folks, thanks for the discussion on this. Itâs interesting to read the different viewpoints on this review, and the issues being discussed. Iâll make sure that our testers that review and put together our ISP/broadband reviews have access to it and put some thought into the suggestions here.
@longinthetooth thanks for kicking off the topic, appreciate the car analogy. I can see your logic here, and maybe there is something more we can do to help people save and understand their needs. I will flag this point with our testers as well, who can access the full range to data to see what it provides.
4 Likes
Some reviews of products and services, notably in the IT sphere provide multiple recommendations.
EG
Best for students,
Best for business,
For broadband as others have suggested there are those more literate in technology than others. Hence the best value might need to be qualified, as whether it suits large or small volume users, or those who might be more dependent on service support, or those who are tech competent and stream QHD 24x7 because they can.
Unfortunately for some of us broadband NBN over Fixed Wireless is a very personal experience. Itâs as much about site and tower as RSP. Hopefully the Choice team will advise what they can and cannot reliably assess.
2 Likes
You can apply to get a Whitebox and be in the testing (may or may not be accepted). I donât entirely rely on Whitebox data but it is a nice starting point to ascertain whether my service is living up to itâs advertised speeds and quality. Data usage I largely derive from my router, pi hole, and occasional checks with my RSP to confirm and compare the accuracy of each. It is a fairly easy task to check usage, what speed you would really benefit from isnât always as easy, particularly if your speed is technologically throttled rather than throttled by choice.
If you were inferring I was bragging about the number of devices, I can assure you Iâm not, many houses now have multiple devices connecting to the internet and sharing data within a household. TVs, Fridges, Dishwashers, Ovens and cooktops, Air-conditioners, Security systems, Smart phones, game consoles, computers, solar generation systems, medical devices, the list is very extensive. 4 people with smart phones adds 4 devices, 3 tablets adds another 3, 2 Smart TVs another 2, our medical devices that send usage etc information to a health hub adds 2 more, security system adds another connection, aircon another. We are a 2 couple household and add children and grandchildren who visit and their devices, add our solar system information system⌠we easily pass that number I quoted above multiple times a month.
If you donât use much then your needs will be less, we take advantage of what we can squeeze out of our product to help us get the best outcomes for our needs.
If you think I donât support better consumer information then Iâm sorry that you believe that when my concern is about getting the best for consumers and I think I continue to demonstrate that. I think that many more would enjoy the greater access to greater speeds which I think is an opposite view to what I believe is your 25/5 is adequate for many.
Canstar Blue offer a helpful general information table regarding data requirements that may help inform users about their data needs. It is just a guideline as it is for most people something they need to look at in their particular circumstances.
The ticks mean adequate, dashes means use caution and crosses mean you need more data.
Even NBN Co have a bit to say on data
â Understanding data
The amount of data you need depends on what you use the internet for, and how many people use your service. Every time you watch something on Netflix or YouTube, youâre downloading data from the internet to your device. The same goes if youâre posting an image to Facebook, or saving a file to âthe cloudâ â youâre uploading data.
The way your nbn⢠powered plan is set up can also have an effect on your usage. Some retail plans will include set limits on how much data you can upload and download, and some will offer no limits.
The key here is understanding your data needs. If youâre running a business from home and you need to send files via email regularly, itâs important to have a good upload speed. If youâre constantly streaming High Definition (HD) video content, it pays to have a good data and speed package.â
And on speed, first finder.com.au have a useful general information table on what speeds are generally good for what use:
and a word from NBN Co on the matter:
â Understanding speed
Internet speed and bandwidth is how much information can be transferred across a network over a short period of time to your internet-enabled device (laptop, smartphone or tablet). The more bandwidth you have, the faster the connection, and the easier it will then be to upload, download, browse and stream.
Something for everyone
The nbn⢠broadband access network now allows you to choose an nbn⢠powered plan from your phone and internet provider based on speed. With a range of speeds on offer, depending on what you use the internet for, you can now experience fast broadband.
Choosing a speed to suit your needs
When choosing the right retail speed and nbn⢠powered plan for your needs, itâs important you think about what you do on the internet. You may stream videos on your TV, have multiple tablets and computers online at once, or upload and download large files when you work from home.
Talk to your phone and internet provider about these activities when choosing an nbn⢠powered plan â this will ensure you get the most out of your nbn⢠access network experience.â
As I said thatâs all good if you can get the speed you want, if your means of connection supports those choices. Many connections donât support what many may want as regards speed, my opinion is expressed here from many interactions I have had with varying people, varying ways of connecting to the nbnâ˘, and difficulty faced with achieving desired outcomes.
3 Likes
I look out for a cheaper Internet plan, but with little joy. My current plan which has been in place since the transition to the NBN, $40/month for what is described as 12/1/100Gb. and includes a pay per call (10¢) VoIP plan. My monthly use is around 40Gb so 100Gb is adequate. I get an email if it goes over 50Gb which it does occasionally. I am guessing this is an adequate plan for anyone who is not streaming video, yet very few reviews cover this segment. We avoid streaming by using a PVR to record free to air content. With the number of channels and the ability to record at any time of the day or night thereâs plenty to keep us entertained. The Internet speed has proven to be adequate, including streaming HD video when needed. Any performance hit is usually due to congestion elsewhere.
The move from ADSL to NBN was not an improvement for us. I had the same performance with a 200Gb allowance for $10/month less. Because NBN retailing is entirely in the hands of private enterprise, a basic (maybe I should call it âpensioner gradeâ) service isnât a market segment.
5 Likes
I actually went with it (it cost $10 more than the 500GB level) because my TV antenna was kaput and I had to use AppleTV to get any FTA over the net. It worked pretty well for me. Most of the time. I now have an improved indoor antenna and its brilliant, so I donât use the ATV much anymore.
2 Likes
For some is an appropriate package not to have the NBN at all?
Telstra, Optus and others offer mobile and fixed broadband over the 4G and 5G networks.
At the expensive end?
Telstra offer 30GB through 4G at $25pm, or a slightly more usable 70GB for $55pm, (4G/5G). About as good as it gets, with only 2 bars out of 5 on the modem.
Speeds can drop much lower depending on demand, but for those with low data needs, basic email, some browsing and online services speed is likely not an issue. It may be adequate to hotspot using your mobile or tablet with the added data.
2 Likes
