Would you buy an electric vehicle - Why or why not?

Transport
105

We obviously have very different understandings of how consumer law applies in this instance!

It’s looking like a very circular discussion.

On the more useful outcomes of implementing V2G.

  • Tesla has said, 1 million Tesla BEV’s have the ability to provide 10GW of generation and more than 40GWh on average surge capacity. Perhaps not a modest thought.
  • Australia has more than 15million personal use passenger class vehicles that will as they electrify offer a significant resource of energy storage.
  • The forecast maximum operational demand for the NEM according to the AEMO 2025-26 is less than 40GW (summer peak) 10% POE. IE about 4 million Teslas, or equivalent to meet 100% of the demand, if only for a few hours.

It’s evident the battery capacity offered as Australia progresses with electrification of transport will be significant. It’s too great a resource not to be one part of the solution. A reward most available to those with lower use needs for their BEVs and a way of improving payback on the investment. The ability to charge selectively off peak and return for selected peak demands has value.

Would you purchase a BEV with the intent of using V2H or participating in V2G? I’ve already said I would and have no serious concerns it will adversely impact the vehicle battery life or vehicle warranty. The basic assumption is it is a feature provided and supported by the manufacturer.

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106

Just a note regarding this, the story was originally published implying V2G was possible, but was then updated to clarify that it was incorrect (it doesn’t help that although they added [updated] to their headline, they kept the original headline).

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107

Thanks for that. My error.

The article unfortunately retains the original analysis following the inserted YouTube link. I took the comment about debunked to suggest that they were ‘debunking’ a Tesla not being capable of V2G. By error in not going to the YouTube expecting Electrek would not leave the original assessment in full.

Electrek have not conceded and are indeed avoiding a clear commitment to either position.

Update : Gaxiola’s analysis of the charger might have included a mistake. Here’s another analysis of the board that comes to a different conclusion:

Electrek does promote its content with a degree of optimism for the promises. It’s an aggregator of media releases. How thorough the reporters are or technically capable, the technology requires a high degree of experience and knowledge to assure the content.

It’s an aside to suggest either or both are right or wrong. It also assumes the two different view points were based on looking at the same design - identical product.

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108

Since when is Choice an advocate for EVs?

For us two 70s retirees it’s not a sensible option, at all!!! So it’s most UNLikely. We lucked onto a very low kms 2015 Subaru Forester top model - with 5-speed CVT in 2015. It was an ex-Subaru-exec car with so few km’s on it, that it still had the ‘new car smell’ and look.
It now has ~ 88K kms on it - and we’d drive it no more than 4 times a week, mostly just twice.
.
The ROI on selling it and buying an EV SUV with AWDrive would be terrible. ROI ? stands for Return on Investment, of course.!?
We are both in our 70s (H 72 and W 74) . We are both retired and have some super plus a little bit of the Old Age Pension.

In what way is any EV a good buy ‘in any case’ - because I believe that it probably isn’t so - and may not ever be - for lots and lots of people? They are expensive and you need a good AMPerage 240V AC supply. We have a bit more than enough to run the house, cook, shower and do laundry…

We also own a low-energy-use house. 14.9 squares, and we brought up our two sons.
Even before being green was the thing, but thanks to the 70s energy price shock- we lucked onto a long unsold East-West (tick!) North facing (tick), AV Jennings brick veneer ‘thing’. Untidy to dirty inside, and the front and back gardens took me at least a year to get right. It now has a deep and wide ‘91% shaded’ - clear-plastic roofed North-facing timber deck which helps keep the inside 35C or below even on >40C weeks, without cooling. With evap. cooling 29C max.

We did add insulation to what was in the ceiling to > R4.0 and the outer walls have had rock-wool added, twice after the first settle-ing, over a few years.

I know the environment is important to us all. I’m a former bushwalker and ongoing day long-walker on most weekends with a group I used to coordinate. And I’m a MGMT Science Grad and change maker.
? SFA folks have to queue at Medicare for rebates, esp mums.

LBNL Choice is about ROI for what we buy, yes?! Stick to that, eh?!

Tim Bailey

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109

One of the choices in the original poll was that one would not elect to change to an EV. Comments were invited.

I can’t see that as Choice being an advocate that we all should or must get EVs and those who decided not to had to explain themselves.

I am of your view. It makes no practical or economic sense for me too, at present, to look to replace my perfectly good petrol car with an electric one.

The results were 59% are not looking to buy an EV.

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110

The topic asked for feedback one way or the other. It’s relevant to point out how retirees make decisions for vehicle purchases. My take is it’s often a trade off between how many more years of driving and affordability. We’re at that point in time as are many of our extended family and friends. Strategies vary with means, needs and aspiration.

The decision to purchase any new vehicle followed by the choice of model, specification and hence price often includes more than just economic reasoning. In one survey,

63% of participants said car safety was the most important characteristic when selecting a car,
62% fuel efficiency and
27% environmental friendliness.

As you point out for someone in retirement with savings, super etc they are important extra resources. Many of us even in retirement make aspirational choices. Downsizing, tree changing, retirement communities, around the world cheap Covid free travel, etc … The last noted might be some time off.

We don’t expect an immediate payback in cash on the safety we pay extra for in a new vehicle. Similarly there is no immediate payback from the environment for those who can afford an EV or lower emissions vehicle. Although there is for an EV a payback from fuel efficiency and lower running costs.

Are the best ones in the community to ask about whether EV’s should receive advocacy our children and grandchildren?

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111

We just purchased an ICE vehicle as the available EV’s are just not economically viable, and probably will not be for many years. The nearest EV to our budget was in excess of $20k more expensive with much higher insurance costs. As we expect our new ICE vehicle to last around 5 - 10 years, we would never have sufficient operational savings over its life span to make a EV pay. The initial cost appears to be the major hurdle unless you are in a business that will let you buy an EV on a Novated lease as part of a salary package, or win Tattslotto.

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112

So I for one am hoping my next car will be an EV and recent arrivals on our shores have certainly increased choice compared to even six months ago.

But my major hurdle is not having a driveway/garage/ car port for daytime charging from my solar.

There has been a bit in the news about councils trialling to offer to install a charging point to the nature strip through a trench or something, but the cost is very high. There have also been observations about many people running cables high over the pavement, hooking a tree branch and then down to the car. Probably risky, and not liked by councils.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I’ve seen some articles about neighbourhood charging points and perhaps community batteries will have a role.

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113

With all the hype on EV vehicles I thought it’s time to do a reality check as 90% of car reviews just quote the manufactures specifications and not the real time experiences and only how many fast charges have been installed.

I Watched an SBS on Demand show called “guy-martin-the-worlds-fastest-electric-car”

Guy Martin TV personality and motor cycle racer did an 1100 mile round trip in England in a Hyundi Ioniq electric vehicle. Here’s what he found:

Hyundi say it will do 300mile on a full charge on average roads and average of variable driving, but his mainly constant driving on a motorway won’t get that range.
He found after 50 miles the battery was depleted to 69% left (meaning a range of 161 miles).
After 155 miles he only had 10% battery left while trying to find a fast charger, car said range left = 18 miles ( for total range of 173 miles).
First charger wouldn’t accept his credit card had to find another one quickly.
The next charger was the latest at 7 times the power of a normal fast charger but pricey (he swore a lot) 70p per Kwh (home electricity was 15p/Kwh normal fast charger 30p/Kwh). It promised to charge the car to 80% in 18minutes, it actually took 1 hour to fully charge. Sometimes he would get desperate to find a working charger before battery level droped to zero.

Half of the 10 charge stations on the round trip either didn’t work or had issues.
Trip cost 204 pounds in electricity where as diesel would have been around 140 pounds.

So I looked around at some Australian local charging stations on Google with the following comments:

2 Tesla and 1 other car charging points on the top level of a local Shopping centre
Tesla is 22kw the other one “Charge point” is 6.6kw (equivalent to a 1 phase home charger according to Choice). 2 reviews - one just saying where it is, the other said 10 months ago:
“2 of the 3 chargers are broken”

Another one in a nearby suburb 6.6kw

There are NRMA ones at a large city down the road. comment 8 months ago: “As a roadside member of 35 years on top cover, I both applaud their charger roll-out, cringe at the number of locations with single chargers, and crawl up in a ball, disgusted at the way the issues with the chargers at **** have been managed. 5 month of poor response and we are still putting up with an older charger that is virtually impossible to use, and (finally) a new charger that only provides 22kw. NRMA, hang your head in shame…”
Response:
“We do operate 24/7 support across our chargers, but also rely on technicians and parts to often fix faulty chargers. Unfortunately the situation with parts has not improved globally so we are experiencing delays from our supplier when it comes to replacement parts needed. At the moment, we are running with limited power awaiting parts at this site”
4 months ago:
"Only 1 of 2 stations working. Had to wait 40 minutes behind 2 others. Tragedy as this is last fast charger close to beginning of motorway to Sydney. "

Another Tesla 120kw super charger. 5 months ago: “Six bays as promised. It was empty when I got there so had full 74amp charging. But it halved of course when someone else used the charger at the other end of the row.”

Every charger appears to be located in isolation with no cover from the elements (One car had their rear window smashed from a falling branch of a tree) and no toilets unless you find one somewhere else in the area.

Leave it to you to draw any conclusions.

114

Simple, wouldn’t tow my caravan long distances.
Can’t carry a jerry can of spare electricity.
Always have diesel on board in a jerry can for the diesel heater in the caravan.

115

In the unlikely event one is catching a Norwegian Ferry run by Bent Martini’s company (gotta love that name …) then probably no … Interesting - insurance companies are saying the companies need to get up to speed on fighting fires in leccy and hydro cars (see sidebar stories in link), at the same time I’m sure they’ve been mauling their wallets for premiums. Could go a number of ways, and probably will, before something is sorted out. Whether it will spread before being sorted only time will tell - there’s lots of modes for car carrying …

116

A car battery with 70% capacity makes a mighty fine home battery for a solar-battery system. There are companies which specialise in converting them. So I expect that when your EV battery no longer holds enough charge to be useful on the road that it will have a decent resale value.

Someone pointed out recently that the Nissan Leaf which was featured over a decade ago in a somewhat disparaging episode of Top Gear is still in use, driven daily by its current owner in Oxford, UK. Not the same model of car, the actual car which was on the program.

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117

Living in the inner(ish) city, recharging is actually an issue for us. There is only one house in our longish street that has any form of off-street parking. One of the local super markets has two recharging stations in its car park, but I am not aware of any others near by.

It’s not realistic to run an extension cord out to the street, on those rare occasions that you can get a park outside the house :slight_smile:

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118

Certainly one of the challenges for those expecting to make the transition one day. The solution may come with more on street charging points in built up areas, and improved vehicle/battery technology or ….

Whether one sees BEV as a future choice there will be increased pressure and financial incentives to find workable solutions. The average rate of growth in BEV sales in Australia 2017-2022 (Est 2,600 - 33,410 vehicles) is approx 67% year on year. Nearly all of these sales are in the light passenger vehicle class. This excludes a large portion of annual volume of sales in commercial light vehicles including utility and 4WD sales. The current rate of growth is sufficient to see the demise of new ICE light passenger vehicle sales in Australia well before 2030.

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119

I wonder if I could use the NBN pit on my nature strip to store the charger and the service conduit to connect the charger cable to my house. :laughing:

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Unfortunately the answer is no. The NBN won’t allow it as it may pose risks to anyone who works around or within the pit.

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121

Interesting article about extension cords to EV’s. Not good running one for several hours and other issues.
https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/ev-charging-power-outlet/

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122

We are waiting to be part of the Port Phillip Council footpath charging trial as we have an apartment & no on site parking to install a charger. If accepted we will pay for the charger to be installed on the kerbside which will be locked & retracts into the ground & only we can use. Subject to this we want to replace our 5 year old diesel SUV with the equivalent electric SUV and use our solar panels & battery to charge our new car. Our advantage will be almost no running costs other than the Vic Govt additional registration charges.

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123

I don’t drive,but if i did i would.Certainly things will get cheaper as the years go on and we all know it’s the future and that’s not going to change.Many homes have solar now and charging your car is a great way to go about it.Batteries are getting better all the time it’s a win win

124

A timely article reinforcing that the left hands and right hands of government each do their own things, no consultation or coherent policies required… perhaps until the press exposes a degree of ineptitude?

It would be interesting to see how the dynamics might change if the tax laws for FBT and rego changed to ‘encourage’ small and electric vehicles rather than the current ad hoc state programs.

Making narrower lanes and smaller car parks hurts my head, especially in the absence of a domestic industry coupled with multinationals building ‘what the market buys’, eg SUVs. It might not be many years before the largest of the American road yachts hit our shores and potentially take over, as if there is not already a toe in. Will ‘oversized vehicle’ regs apply?

For those who do not click through,

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