Would you buy an electric vehicle - Why or why not?

The EV’s are getting better all the time.There is BMW i3 i think it is and it’s range is 597KM before re-charging.No matter what way you look at it the future is EV’s and that’s not going to change.A change in government i believe will set us on the right course.We are way behind with other developed countries that needs to change

Anyone handy with their tools will save 1000’s sticking with today’s very reliable piston jobs today. My Nissan has smashed out 300,000 kms and never burns any oil. I paid $7k for it 13 years ago. Now retired and my rego is more than the fuel I burn each year. EV’s are for the rich.

My two main reasons for delaying the acquisition of an EV is that my current vehicle ( a 2011 Mitsubishi ASX) is working fine (and doesn’t need replacing) and EVs cost so much. I’m hoping that by the time I actually have to replace my ICE the cost of EVs has come down substantially. I have some concerns with the availability of charging stations. I would probably install a charging point at my house to supplement other charging options. I do have rooftop solar, so bi-directional is appealing.

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Even for people staying on tarmac it seems a long way off before it is viable - off-tarmac even longer. I think some people a dreaming to a degree - but we do need the dreamers :wink:

Advocates make case for more electric vehicle charging stations in outback Australia - ABC News

I would not, and probably not for the next 20 years.

When we have replaced every fossil-fuel-generated watt with a renewable watt, and when we have used any surplus renewable electricity beyond that to decarbonise all our materials industries (green steel, green aluminium, green cement, green plastics, green fertilisers etc), then and only then should we waste precious renewable electricity on electric vehicles.

In the meantime, we have biofuels.

Biofuels can take all transport fuels completely out of the climate-change equation virtually overnight, and not just for road and rail but for air and sea as well, because they are better-than-zero-emissions with more carbon locked up in growing the feedstocks than is released in burning the fuel.

And they can make use of our existing stock of vehicles and of our existing infrastructure for refuelling, and they don’t require the expenditure of massive amounts of public money in subsidies – just lower the excise on biofuels and raise the excise on fossil fuels.

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I am not considering an EV at this stage.
No home solar for me, so that charging benefit doesn’t apply.
The models available seem high-priced, and insurance for EV cars from what I have read is higher than ICE cars.
My state Gov has slapped a per kilometer charge on EV cars for registration that only applies to them.
Lastly, I’ve yet to see any used car market.

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2 posts were merged into an existing topic: Arguments for/against Promoting Electric Vehicles

The elephant in the room regarding EV’s is where will all the energy required to run them come from. I a technically illiterate country where very few even understand the difference between energy and power it seems all too easy to pull the wool over peoples eyes and the reality of the problem that increased numbers of EV’s on the road is overlooked.
To put this in perspective, the average daily household ELECTRICITY consumption in Australia is in the vicinity of 20 kWh .or 7280 kWh per year. This of course varies by season and location. Obviously some households use gas for cooking and heating (in rural areas wood is also used for heating), so when large scale users of gas (industry and electricity generators) are taken out of the equation, it would be unprofitable to “mine” and distribute gas, electricity will have to be the replacement and thus household electricity useage will increase.
To put this into perspective, the latest 2 wheel drive Model 3 Tesla uses about 13 kWh of electrical energy per 100 kilometers (0.13 kWh/kM). with and average of 1.8 cars per household travelling about 20,000 kM per year, this equates to 4680 kWh per year for each household.
This is equivalent to about 65% of the household energy use before adding in the extra electricity that cessation of gas use will cause, and overlooks the extra electrical use that commercial transportation will require.
So, conservatively, we will have to at least double the amount of electricity that will be required.
And remember, “batteries”, whether electrochemical or pumped hydro do not produce electricity, and do not return the same amount of electricity in that is “stored” into them. (pumped hydro only being about 80% efficient.
Currently, the electricity production in Australia already struggles to keep up with demand as witnessed by the increasing occurrence of blackouts and brown outs.
So, where will all of this electricity that will be required to convert to EV’s come from?
And, how will it be made available to remote locations without massive infrastructure costs?

Welcome @470rigby to the community.

The answer to your question of where will the energy come from is nuclear fusion and the enormous amount of energy that comes from that reaction.

Every morning the great source of energy comes into view. The sun of course.

We just need to harness the light and heat to produce electricity. Need more energy, then build more collectors. Need to distribute it, then build more wires. Need to convert to some specific fuel type, then the electricity is there to do the transform.
Need to store the energy, then use various methods. There are plenty in use today. Batteries, pumped hydro, thermal mass, even wind is caused by heat differentials caused by the sun.

Remote locations? The sun shines its energy everywhere. Build collectors where they are needed.

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Since I most likely will be too old to drive in 20 years. I probably won’t be buying a EV. My assumption is that Australia has dropped the ball with EV’s and it will take 20 years to make an affordable EV for the everyday consumer. At the moment it is not viable to buy an EV unless you are wealthy. One example is if you have to replace a battery, it will cost at least $5000. Another point is that Australia is not EV friendly. Also high cost of insurance would be another factor.

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Can’t see free charging lasting forever - as seems to be supplied in some places. Also have concerns about range of electric cars. Having said that had a Toyota Camry hybrid rental for a month and was impressed by its quality, and also how little petrol we used.

Still, if we are going to move out of one set of charging places - called petrol stations - and replace them with another, then interesting times ahead.

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1885
The Benz Patent Motorwagen, 3 wheeler open air with bench seat and tiller.

23 years on
The Ford Model T, steering wheel, epicyclic gearbox, wind screen roof and doors.

Time jump to 1996,
GM EV1, 102kW, range 169km with 26.4kWh NiMH battery pack.

21 years on (2017)
The Tesla Model 3, 147kW, range 354km with 54kWh Lithium ion battery pack.

The first Benz along side other early automobiles were only affordable to the very wealthy. Their performance was limited. The GM EV1 was ony ever leased, but had an estimated selling price of US$34,000. (Approx US$62,000 in 2022 inflated).

Tesla USA today markets it’s cars as luxury vehicles with the base version (2022) of the model 3 US$44990 +/-US taxes, Govt subsidies etc (per Edmonds).

It’s understandable many of us average Australian consumers cannot afford the current crop of BEV’s.
I filled up today with unleaded 91 plus a 20l Jerry of diesel for the big mower. Over $164. Ouch!

The economics are constantly changing.

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A newsy video item about Norway’s uptake of EVs and perhaps a wake up call for Australia in regards to going electric (please note the video has a small amount of ads).

How Norway KILLED the Petrol Car - Fully Charged Show

A great statement made at the end “The Government has made doing so the obvious choice [going electric]. They’ve put chargers absolutely everywhere. They’ve ensured that even if you live in a tower block you can still get a charge and above all else they have made buying a new electric car so much more financially viable than buying an equivalent petrol model”. It begs the question why not here?

I think that we need to accept that we need to change.

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Why not in Australia?
Well the principal roadblock to that has just been removed from Government.

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Other than policy, a country that is not even covered by mobile service with 100’s and more ks between signals is going to take a l.o.n.g time to install charging stations sufficient to assuage those worried about range (and convenience). Conceptually imagine a solar battery powered charger in the middle of the Simpson that will never be vandalised, always maintained, and never have more than a 2 vehicle queue.

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You only need to have such concerns if you accept the (straw man) argument that EVs must be suitable for all purposes in all situations. The chances are we won’t see a lot of electric B-doubles or tractors in the next few years either.

Another aspect of this rarely mentioned is that come the day that there is a high proportion of EVs is what kind of service will the remaining ICEs get? Will there be any price competition at all for fuel, will new generation of mechanics be able to service them and will there be any new service stations established in new developments that sell fuel at all?

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Not the only challenge.
Assuming,

It will be something keenly followed by many. The greatest benefit to emissions reductions will come from electrifying the vehicles that get the most use - kilometres, and have the best access to charging infrastructure. Assuming these are mostly used for business the customer benefits will also be measurable. That opportunity is recognised in part of the promise.

Note:
There are many more private use vehicles though, of which the majority are relatively low annual use - kilometres. It will be interesting to see how government investment and support is prioritised. Australia does not yet have a domestic BEV manufacturing industry, hence demand will be met from imported vehicles. That in itself may be a drag on the economy, and impact exchange rates adversely. Reality - global price inflation, international competition/demand and supply chain concerns.

At current new vehicle prices, if I was still working full time self employed it would be a simpler decision, assuming the promised changes are acted on. Access to charging infrastructure away from home or a base would be the greatest risk/need for maximising the benefits. Alternately as a private owner those concerns don’t exist, due to lower kms and a more limited area of use. The payback in the second instance social/moral more than any cash benefit.

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