Wind Powered Energy Generation

Some research hints that gusting winds and roof mounting such as on high rise buildings may hold potential even in Urban environs:

https://www.isesco.org.ma/ISESCO_Technology_Vision/NUM22/doc/2.pdf

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High rise mounting is certainly already done in a few places, but note they are still mounting them where turbulence is reduced and wind speed is highest.
VAWTs can operate fairly well when the turbulence relates to direction, but when velocity varies a lot, all wind turbines suffer big losses, due to power being proportional to the cube of the wind velocity.

Darrius turbines have been trialled in the past at various locations, but most are no longer operational. There was one between here and Tamworth many years ago, in a small village, but it disappeared quite some time ago, after sitting idle for a very long time.

The talk of building mounting WTGs worries me- don’t try it on a shed or house! On massive concrete buildings it is fine, but small buildings like urban sheds and houses act like amplifiers. A friend had one mounted on his shed for a while- the noise was rather loud whenever the wind blew.

And still we come back to the cost. Unless you live in an extremely windy location, it is unlikely to be anywhere near cost competitive with PV panels. There have been a number of companies selling small VAWTs in Australia over the years, and they have all been very expensive, and unlikely to ever pay for themselves before end of life.

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Not too sure about this. One of the advantages of renewables is that they’re generally small (solar towers notwithstanding). The bigger they get, the more they present the problems of large centralised (coal/nuclear) generators.

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There’s a huge difference between a 12MW wind turbine and a 2000MW FF burner!

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Smoke and CO2 generation not the least of those differences.

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Promising, given how much of Australia’s population is concentrated around the coast.

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From Facebook:


:roll_eyes:

eh? Surely those morons will contract cancer just by having fake turbines on their heads?

… or are they secretly wearing protective tin foil hats under their helmets?

If that sort of nonsense is common, I can see why FB is often called a megaphone for idiots!

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I believe it’s a joke @gordon. April, as in the first thereof.

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I didn’t notice any mention of the day of the month…and last I checked, it was January.

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Wind turbines are the future. But I will miss the birds, the California stat’s are terrible. Apparently many birds are attracted to the massive insect kill zone. Certain beneficial insect populations are also crashing in wind turbine areas. Like bees.
I read in the comments that some peoe don’t believe that turbine infrasound is a problem, or that it is detectable. Why can’t wind turbines be built in Warringah? Easily measurable infrasound is one reason.
Wind turbines are the future, but it doesn’t mean the resultant environmental devistation is acceptable. I’d rather live in a coal port, next to a coal power station. More wildlife.

Obviously they can be but probably will not be. The reason is economics, to be cost effective a wind farm has to be located where strong winds blow most of the time and where land is cheap. Neither apply to Warringah.

All construction projects have some environmental consequences. What reason do you have to say that wind farms are devastating? Do you conclude that the environmental costs (per unit energy) for wind farms are greater than for other energy projects? How do you know this?

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The infrasound from wind turbines pales into insignificance when compared with living near the beach (waves crashing) or near a road (traffic noise), or near a forest (wind in trees). Small wind turbines also produce infrasound, I had one operating not 50m from my bedroom for many years, but I have yet to grow a 2nd head, or have vibrating lips, or any other of the ridiculous claims purported to be caused by wind turbines.
Re bird deaths from turbines, yes they are a problem, and technology to reduce bird deaths is being tested out already, but in terms of numbers, domestic and feral cats are a vastly greater problem, as are many other factors. Wind turbines are way down the list.

See the article here: https://www.windalliance.org.au/birdlife

Regarding health effects, plenty of independent studies show no health problems. “Wind turbine syndrome” is what’s knows as a communicated disease, IE people have to hear about it from one of the anti-wind power groups (often funded by FF interests), before suddenly realising they must have it.
See: https://www.windalliance.org.au/evidence_on_wind_farms_and_human_health for the NHMRC statement

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Thank you for providing the well funded industry resource to back your statements. The website is beautiful. I doubt however that the windalliance.org are neutral on the matter,
Here is an Australian reference that collects the statements of those devastated by wind turbines, scientific research that contradicts industry research and opposing opinion. https://stopthesethings.com/2019/08/02/sick-again-wind-turbine-infrasound-delivers-daily-torment-to-wind-farm-neighbours/

Regarding Wind Turbine Syndrome, You are aware that the USA and Germany have used Infrasound as an offensive weapon? Saying that infrasound does not cause problems is a bit like saying bullets are harmless because some antigun lobby says so.

Here is just one reference to a US study on bird populations. It is a pity that the wind industry have won the debate, because as I said above, I will miss the birds when they have gone. Visiting SA and Vic wind turbine areas is eary because of the lack of birds. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wind-turbines-threaten-midwest-birds-feds-say

I think the appropriate term is lunatic fringe.

If increasing the number of wind turbines has any effect at all on bird numbers, then it will probably be positive.

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Also, the WashingtonExaminer.com is what it is.

Citing reputable scientific sources to support an opinion would be more persuasive in a meaningful discussion.

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Do you think that the environmental costs of wind power are greater than other sources of energy per unit of power generated? How do you know this?

lol, a fine source of misrepresentation and nonsense if ever I saw one.

The seriously anti-renewables Angus Taylor is their hero!

If you think the Wind Alliance is making up numbers (that table was from other sources), then perhaps this is more convincing?

The British Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (https://www.rspb.org.uk/reserves-and-events/find-a-reserve/reserves-a-z/reserves-by-name/t/thelodge/windturbine/why.aspx) built a wind turbine at its Bedfordshire headquarters to reduce its carbon emissions (and in doing so, aims to minimise species loss due to climate change). It recognised that wind power is far more beneficial to birds than it is harmful.

https://www.rspb.org.uk/our-work/our-positions-and-casework/our-positions/climate-change/action-to-tackle-climate-change/uk-energy-policy/wind-farms/

Feral and domestic cats are by far the greatest threat to birds, as has been found in many studies in many countries.

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This seems an unreasonable proposition. There will always be bird populations that are not exposed to wind turbines. Our local bird population fights for survival threatened daily by feral and loose domestic cats.

Australian mining ventures have removed far more vegetation and thus eliminated habitat essential to native wildlife. Add the land and other resources dedicated to power stations and their supporting infrastructure the calculated impact can only increase.

There is a more compelling argument in favour of ceasing mining of all resources if we are concerned about preserving bird life in those areas. My first hand experience of many active Australian mine sites is that they are the last place you will find bird life. Should we consider also the toxic waste of older mining operations that are relying on our governments for restoration? No homes suitable for and sometimes high risks to native wildlife?

P.S.
The greater threat to Australia’s wild life remains changes to our climate. If we continue to warm expect all the wildlife we find in the northern half of Australia to move south. Expect crocodiles to be nesting in the Myall Lakes and Clarence River, deadly box jelly fish off Bondi Beach (full stinger suits the norm), and all those creepy crawlies and reptiles that sting and bite in the north to move into regional Sydney. Things grow bigger in the tropics. Bird eating spiders are just one!

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