Which butter or spread do you prefer?

I couldn’t find on Dr Gundry’s web site where the evidence for lectins passing through cows into milk was presented, nor anything to say how much was passed through and how that might be harmful. If it is there perhaps you can find it.

As far as I can see you have to buy his books to get the details of his material.

He presents several case studies about groups of problems (for example ‘leaky gut’) which consist of describing a set of symptoms and then, without presenting any evidence or explanation, finding a cause and giving you a remedy.

Dr Gundry has not got a good reputation as a nutritionist. He may or may not do research but there are several signs that his work is not useful:

  • He doesn’t publish in peer reviewed journals.
  • He is now working outside his area of expertise and claiming his qualifications make him expert in a completely different field.
  • He says that many different diseases are caused by one class of compounds (lectins) but nobody else can confirm this link.
  • He now makes a living selling very expensive pills and potions that cure a problem that nobody else can identify.

The good Dr Gundry may have been a professional and competent heart surgeon but nothing he says leads me to change my diet or buy his remedies.

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I wonder as to the reliability of such claims, and indeed the risks of lectins as a whole. Corn has been a staple in the Americas for thousands of years, the first Australians used grains for tens of thousands of years, and some of the healthiest and longest living people from Japan have a diet with rice as a core ingredient. Genetically, perhaps some of us do have a sensitivity to certain chemical compounds also found in grains. Celiac disease is one known concern that affects some of us.

Science is however reliable on one count re animals in the food chain. Too much animal fat is bad for our cholesterol levels. This is not however due to lectins, as livestock is often raised on pasture only.

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His theories are ‘interesting’. I wonder if his controversial views are a marketing tool to allow him to sell his supplements, ‘health’ foods, skin care products and books. Som of these products are marketed to block the effect of…lectins (no surprises there). His website also then states as a disclaimer…“These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease”. So, he has theories, sells products to treat symptoms arising from his theories, and then has disclaimers saying, in effect, they don’t work…very interesting that a ‘famous’ cardiologist who in the past role was to protect patient health would make such statements.

There are many other ‘doctors’ who have taken the same pathway to profit.

In the US, there are many who profess new science is the cure to all ills without necessarily the peer reviewed science to substantiate the claims. One should look more broadly than information from one who prophetteers beliefs, to see if the information is factual and based on science.

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I think we need that word. One who styles himself prophet who is also a profiteer Various web dictionaries have it but I want to lobby the OED to make it pukka.

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As I posted above most of the only proof these anti lectin diets use is that of a study and book/s by Dr Steven Gundry. He did a study that was based on 102 of his heart patients with no control group and it was presented as an abstract that was originally published March 2018 to the American Heart Association Conference Journals. It has not been peer reviewed and other peer reviewed studies while having some support that some lectins are adverse for some also point out that some lectins in foods help us (I recommend looking through Google Scholar for relevant information https://scholar.google.com.au/).

The human body is adapted to having lectins in foods and indeed requires lectins for some functions. I just wouldn’t eat things like RAW Kidney Beans (very safe after cooking) or any amount of Castor Oil beans but then I wouldn’t eat Deadly nightshade, Oleander, Rosary peas, Death caps either (among a great number of other deadly or dangerous plants and fungus). Also some people have allergies to foods eg peanuts, lactose, gluten that while safe and useful as food for the vast majority of users can have adverse effects for those who are allergic. To broadly label lectins as dangerous or somehow un-needed is, I think, disingenuous.

The final paragraph of his abstract is “We conclude that a lectin limited diet, supplemented (my highlighting) with pro and prebiotics, and polyphenols are capable of curing or putting into remission most autoimmune diseases”. Who is to say that the benefits didn’t arise from these supplements rather than the limiting/removal of lectins (part of the reason that control groups should be required). Disclosures that are made on his study also note that he benefits from Royalties from Golden Hippo (https://goldenhippo.com/about.php) which is a company that designs, brands and sells Health products see these excerpts from their website:

“where brands are conceptualized, products are formulated, and marketing campaigns are created and executed”

“fulfillment center, where orders are packed and shipped”

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I went off butter after buying butter when overseas - in that country it was illegal to add the yellow coloring that Australia allows in butter.
These days I use Rice Bran Oil Spread

  • for cholesterol reasons
  • to support the rice bran oil industry. Rice bran oil is a superior cooking oil - it doesn’t break down at normal frying temperatures (which other vegetable oils do)
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I think you must mean margarine an not butter.

Colouring isn’t added to butter as churned cream has a natural yellow (butter) colour. Depending on the ingredients used in the formulation of margarine, colour may added so that the margarine is yellow and similar colour to butter. This is because the average punter associates butter being yellow and a substitute spread (margarine) needs to also be yellow. If Margarine was say pink, green, blue, translucent grey (which is the colour of some margarines without colour added) etc, they wouldn’t be able to effectively sell their product as a butter replacement.

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We buy Flora ProActiv for everyday use as it has plant sterols added.

We also buy Western Star butter for special uses such as mashed potatoes, corn on the cob and such treats.

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In US and other countries they sometimes add annatto or extra carotene to enhance the yellow colour because of either the milk they use or due to the seasonal variations they experience. Typically Cows Milk which produces most of our Au butter has a lot of natural beta-carotene because most are grass fed, whiter butters are from animals that do not produce milk that contains beta-carotene (eg sheep or goats) or from cows that are kept in lots and fed more grains etc and so the milk does not have as much or very little beta-carotene. Seasonally in many EU and US areas the colour from cows milk fat also varies due to the change in diet they are fed, with the most intense yellow butters being produced in the Summer period when they feed on green pastures (more beta carotene) and becoming more pale as the cooler/colder months come into play (ie less grass).

White butter that you often see in US is often made by whipping the butter to incorporate more air, or perhaps more correctly nitrogen gas to stop rancidity from oxygen, which produces a lighter and easier to spread butter. Because of the whipping the butter looks paler than normal solid unwhipped butter. Lurpack and other EU butters are generally from animals that do not get much beta carotene in their diets or they convert it to Vit A (sheep and goats do convert it) and as they are typically raised indoors most of the year and have grains etc for feed for a large part of the year.

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Yet another example of how we eat with our eyes.

Some history of the early days of margarine when the dairy industry had real power in some parts of the world:

  • Margarine could not be sold coloured but came with a little sachet of colour you could mix in yourself, IIRC this was in the USA but may have also been done in other countries such as the UK. There was no pretence that there was anything wrong with the colouring - pure protectionism.

  • After failing to have margarine banned the dairy industry had quotas placed on margarine production so that butter would not have to compete ‘unfairly’. In other words one kind of agriculture was prefered to another by law for no reason other than influence. This applied in Oz mainly in the 1940s and 50s, after several court cases the States fiddled with the quotas on and off until eventually they were all abolished in the 1970s, but I don’t know exactly when that was.

Ah free enterprise ain’t it grand.

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There was an interesting transition as I recollect.

One day there was simply products labelled as ‘cooking margarine’. There was much debate with the grans over what it was good for. Certainly not intended for use on bread. A white and smooth fat like substance wrapped in foil cubes.

Then the next moment in time there were tubs labelled ‘Table Margarine’. The greatest debate changed to was the new and more expensive product any different from cooking margarine. And could you use the table spread in your cooking! Polyunsaturated was still to appear on the labelling.

Eventually most of our extended family abandoned butter for the life preserving marvels of cholesterol reducing polyunsaturated canola oil goodness. Even if it cost more!

Only butter tastes like butter. There has not been a tub of marg in our fridge for a decade. Western Star Spreadable works fine.

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I think that experience is fairly wide spread ( pun intended :wink: ).

From 2006 ( possibly earlier ? ), the edible oil spreads standard had a definition for margarine, and very few of the spreads ( emulsions ) could be labelled as margarine as they didn’t have the requisite quantity of fat, namely 800g per kg.

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We are the same and over 2 decades for us (since 1998). We don’t use butter as a spread (other than as a treat on toasted fruit loaf) but use it in cooking. Butter does tastes better and don’t plan to buy the yellow imitation any time soon.

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I remember one of my first attempts to be
‘Useful’ in the kitchen at home and trying to whip-up fresh cream.
I gave it a few whips too many and wasn’t
sure what to do.
Seeing my flustered attempts, my Dad
said: ‘Don’t worry, Luv (Or the Italian equivalent) we’ll make butter out of that’
He kept whipping-up the cream until a nugget of butter began to form.
I was amazed, but never did make butter
myself: easier to buy fat-reduced spreads.

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Yes that was the case, butter in the USA made from cows’ milk that had little beta-carotene in it. It was very pale.

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Made my own butter yesterday. First time for everything! It worked out really well. Although I didn’t squeeze all the liquid out, but for the first effort I’m happy with it.

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buttermilk - is great for making
(a) pancakes
(b) rice pudding

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I know but a little bit that remained wouldn’t have made any difference

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A nutritionist recommended to me just to eat pure butter. However, I found the Australian butt er was usually too hard to spread. The NZ spreadable pure butter is easy to spread and tastes delicious. It is a shame that there is no equivalent made in Australia.

Also, I was told by the nutritionist not to eat Vegetable oil. When you look at the packets in the shop, vegetable oil is in just about everything including some butters and margarines.