What to do about refusal to refund?

They have a number of seriously red flags that they are off shore.

  1. no contact information beyond their online web form or the email listed in the ToU or any location information.
  2. These Terms of Service and any separate agreements whereby we provide you Services shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of Europe.
  3. There are no references I could find to the ACL or to an ABN

I agree with you on the misleading nature of the refunds page as presented however anything related to a ‘change of mind’ is at most implied. The style of the statements are ‘not Australia’ - likely their home jurisdiction.

An ecommerce site to be avoided in my opinion.

You could try lodging a charge back on your credit card citing their refund policy and/or just offering to return the shoes. 50-50 how either could turn out.

This older topic might be helpful in future.

Please keep your topic updated as to how you decide to proceed and how it goes.

5 Likes

Thanks again, and for the hint about identifying offshore sites. I won’t be getting my fingers burnt again!

I have offered to return the shoes, but they have not supplied an address to ship them to.

How do I go about lodging a credit card charge back?

I have also considered bombing their FB site with negative comments, as they have posted only positive feedback of course (although I did notice that a couple had mentioned the white Velcro showing - a result of the straps not being long enough, obviously! - only their feet were apparently flatter than mine). What do you think about this idea?

5 Likes

Contact your card issuer, usually called ‘a dispute’. From Westpac

Mostly likely it will wind you up, and they will remove it.

4 Likes

Okay, thanks. I have to go out now, but will follow up and keep you posted.

4 Likes

Oh, one more question. Should I keep contacting them by email telling them what I’m doing and/or what I have ascertained, or keep mum until I have got an answer back about the charge-back?

3 Likes

I would not. The charge back process is that if your claim is timely, your issuer will give you a pending credit for the amount. The issuer will then (through MC or Visa or Amex etc) process the charge back claim that includes getting the vendor’s side of the dispute.

If the vendor ignores it or the process upholds your claim the credit becomes permanent. If they take the vendor’s side the credit is reverted back to a valid charge. One can still dispute that if it goes the wrong way and you have evidence it was an incorrect determination because [fill in your facts].

As part of the dispute be sure to indicate you tried to return the goods but they refuse/decline to provide an address, etc, etc. as well as a copy of their refunds page (not just a link as web pages can be altered on the fly and routinely are). Perhaps there is also something about that on your shipping/invoice docs that would be helpful.

6 Likes

I agree, it is highly unlikely that you will be successful dealing with a foreign company (more on that below). The ACCC highlights some of the risks of shopping internationally on their website:

Unfortunately, it is near impossible to force your Australian Consumer Guarantees on a foreign business (which Amelia Australia is). For the future, be very wary of buying anything through Facebook, Googe etc advertising, and there are a lot of scammers or foreign businesses which don’t care about customer service or upholding their own business policies. They are more about getting sales by offering unreal prices (which means the same applies to their products) or succeeding in their scams.

While there are genuine foreign businesses, one needs to have a high level of confidence that any interaction is with a genuine and trustworthy business.

The Amelia Australia website has some tell-tale signs of a business one should not deal with. The contact page lacks any contact information (only contact is by webform). Doing internet searches there is a lack of online information (zero) about the business. This indicates that it has been around for a short time and may be a popup front for scam type businesses.

It also appears that credit card companies/secure credit card payment platforms may have blocked transactions with them as the only form of payment available at checkout is Paypal (even though their website on other pages might indicate otherwise). The only other payment option is to provide your contact details so that they can contact you to make payment. If they contacted you for your credit card details (which allows them to process against the credit card manually), notify your bank immediately as it is possible they have retained your credit card details and will use it again unlawfully in the future.

If the website allowed you to enter your credit card details at the time of purchase, it is important to keep an eye on your credit card statement to ensure there are no future fraudulent transactions. It is possible that the website wasn’t through a secure payment platform, meaning they harvest credit card details for future unauthorised transactions. Also contact your bank/card issuer if this was the case.

Edit: I should have also said that many shonky online businesses know to string out the refund process - past the standard dispute period offered by financial institutions for a chargeback - as this gives them the certainty of retaining the acquired funds. This is why you must instigate the process ASAP and cease dealing with them..

7 Likes

Seems to me that if they clearly state in their returns policy that there are no returns for items bought on sale, and if pretty much everything they sell is on sale, then that means there is a no returns policy.

An online store operating outside Australia probably couldn’t care less about what the ACL says.

You should go straight to a credit card reversal, but their policy, clearly stated, could well be a valid reason for the reversal to not be accepted by the vendor’s merchant bank side. But try it anyway.

It may be just something to put down to experience.

4 Likes

But they don’t state it in their returns policy (Return Policy – AMELIAS AUSTRALIA 🇦🇺) - only buried in the Terms of use (Terms of use – AMELIAS AUSTRALIA 🇦🇺), which I suspect they may have only recently updated, because their Terms of service (Terms of service – AMELIAS AUSTRALIA 🇦🇺) does not have the line about sale items. Note that both say “We do not warrant that the quality of any products, services, information, or other material purchased or obtained by you will meet your expectations, or that any errors in the Service will be corrected.”!!

2 Likes

Thanks for this too, and for everyone’s contributions. I have now submitted a dispute to Amex, so will await the outcome of that and follow up here once I have received an answer.

6 Likes

While you are waiting, a slightly old but germane topic.

5 Likes

This is in their refunds policy on the home page. Down the bottom. Note the last sentence.

Exceptions / non-returnable items
Certain types of items cannot be returned, like perishable goods (such as food, flowers, or plants), custom products (such as special orders or personalized items), and personal care goods (such as beauty products). We also do not accept returns for hazardous materials, flammable liquids, or gases. Please get in touch if you have questions or concerns about your specific item.

Unfortunately, we cannot accept returns on sale items or gift cards.

1 Like

Which home page? Not on this one posted above (https://ameliasaustralia.com/).

2 Likes

Sorry for confusion. It is in their refund policy section. But catch22 is that to be eligible for a refund, you need to return the goods if you are not satisfied, but you can’t return if they were were not eligible for a refund.
Brilliant.

3 Likes

You lost your money.
Just don’t buy from companies you never heard of, no matter how many GOOOOD??? stars the receive.
DONT DO IT, save your money, DONT DO IT!!!

1 Like

I had two issues involving dodgy vendors, neither of which were on line transactions. One involved a retail outlet with a paragraph on their invoice denying refunds if the packaging was opened and then, only for 7 days. This is clearly against ACL, and I wrote to both Consumer Affairs and the ACCC. The responses I got made no reference about how to deal with rejection. The assumption is that because the law says I am entitled to a refund, therefore I will get a refund. Otherwise to take the matter up with VCAT.
I don’t think Consumer Affairs actively takes my side and prosecutes on my behalf. So in the case of small value items, ACL is of no help if the vendor ignores you

5 Likes

That is a concise and accurate synopsis. Businesses that want to abide by the ACL will and do, those that do not will not and the only real leverage a consumer has is their state tribunal. The dodgy ones know that for low value items the odds a consumer would take the trouble are very low.

The ACL can work a treat but overall it is little more than pretty window dressing as far as some companies are concerned. The ACCC/consumer affairs agencies only become active beyond lip service when there is a pervasive, egregious action affecting many, such as the HN franchisees giving false information to customers regarding their rights.

So far my experience with the ACL has been quite good with products valued in the $100’s and up although not always quick or easy, and zero on a few in the $10’s from a few online sellers, but has generally worked for me even for the small value product problems with big name merchants.

4 Likes

As the retailer has indicated that packaging is to be unopened for a refund (or exchange), it appears to be a change in mind policy which sits outside the Australian Consumer Law. A consumer won’t know if a product has a fault, it the product packaging was unopened (with exception of product recalls were every product is recalled due to a known fault).

This can be a reasonable requirement for ‘changes of mind’, where a consumer decides they don’t need or no longer want the product for some reason. In such case a retailer can require a product to be returned in new condition in undamaged/unopened packaging to honour their change in mind policy. This allows them to resell the product.

If the requirement is for returning a product with a fault for a remedy under the Australian Consumer Law, then this is a unreasonable condition as you have highlighted.

Do you have a copy/photo of the receipt/invoice conditions you can post?

1 Like

The following is a non legal opinion. Getting proper legal advice before taking any action is very important and strongly recommended. There are good Consumer Legal Advice centres that deal with this type of consumer complaint and on this site we have a topic that lists a few Free Legal Advice Centres - Services - Community (choice.community)

If you did take action in a Civil and Administrative Tribunal (CAT) you could seek as part of the result that your reasonable costs of taking the action were met eg cost to file, cost to serve, reimbursement for travel to CAT costs, as the ACL makes provision for compensation of costs above the refund, repair amount. This would probably make the process much more palatable to undertake for you and in a strong case much more costly for the business.

The relevant quotes from the ACCC on compensation under ACL and a link to the page regarding compensation follow:

1. Information For Businesses

"

Compensation for damages & loss

Your customers can seek compensation for damages and losses they have suffered due to a problem with a product or service (in addition to any other remedy provided) if you could have reasonably foreseen the problem. In other words, customers can also recover losses that would probably result from your failure to meet a guarantee.

Damages include the cost caused to the consumer as a result of the problem with the product or service. This is usually financial, such as costs of repairing damaged carpets as a result of a faulty leaking washing machine, inspection and transportation. It can also include lost time or productivity.

You do not have to pay for damages or losses that:

  • are not caused by your business or the goods you supplied
  • relate to something independent of your business and outside your control, after the goods left your control. "

2. Information For Consumers

Who to claim a remedy from

Products

You can claim a remedy from the retailer if the products do not meet any one or more of the consumer guarantees, with the exception of availability of spare parts and repair facilities.

The remedies you can seek from the retailer who sold you the product include a repair, replacement, or refund and in some cases compensation for damages and loss.

The retailer can’t refuse to help you by sending you to the manufacturer or importer.

You can claim a remedy directly from the manufacturer or importer if the goods do not meet one or more of the following consumer guarantees:

  • acceptable quality
  • matching description
  • any extra promises made about such things like performance, condition and quality
  • repairs and spare parts - the manufacturer is responsible for ensuring that spare parts and repair facilities (a place that can fix the consumer’s goods) are available for a reasonable time after purchase unless you were told otherwise. How long is ‘reasonable’ will depend on the type of product.

[My note: In cases where you avoid the retailer and go to the manufacturer or importer]
You are only entitled to recover costs from a manufacturer or importer, which include an amount for reduction in the product’s value and in some cases compensation for damages or loss.

Services

You can claim a remedy from the supplier if the services do not meet any of the consumer guarantees in relation to services. Remedies include cancelling a service and in some cases compensation for damages and loss.

Exceptions to guarantees

Consumer guarantees do not apply if you:

  • got what you asked for but simply changed your mind, found it cheaper somewhere else, decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it
  • misused a product in any way that caused the problem
  • knew of or were made aware of the faults before you bought the product
  • asked for a service to be done in a certain way against the advice of the business or were unclear about what you wanted.

Rights to a repair, replacement, refund, cancellation or compensation do not apply to items:

  • worth more than $100,000 purely for business use, such as machinery or farming equipment
  • you plan to on-sell or change so that you can re-supply as a business
  • bought as a one-off from a private seller, for example at a garage sale or fete (but you do have rights to full title, undisturbed possession and no unknown debts or extra charges)
  • bought at auction where the auctioneer acted as an agent for the owner (but you do have rights to full title, undisturbed possession and no unknown debts or extra charges)
  • where the contract is to store or transport goods as part of business activities."

Compensation for damages & loss | ACCC

1 Like

Since your item was “faulty” I do not believe that the clause regarding returns applies. I had a similar experience with a “sale” which was “not as described”. Fortunately, as I had paid through PayPal, I was able to open a dispute through PayPal and received a full refund.

5 Likes