What is the worst car make? Lack of Reliability and/or support

I purchased a KIACerato from National Capital Motors in Belconnen in Canberra in December 2018.
The car supposedly has a 7 year warranty.
I have been back on a couple of occasions to complain about the inaccuracy of the speedometer. When the speedo reads 100kph the actual road speed is just under 90kph. National capital motors refused to fix the problem. I rang KIA and complained and they flat out refused to fix the problem.
When I put my car in for its 12 Month service I again mentioned it, again they refused to even look at it this time.
I also complained about the proximity sensors on the front passenger side, the ‘mechanic’ said he cleaned them and they now work. I cleaned the whole car the day before I put in in. They still don’t work.
The car changes gears for no apparent reason, like going around a corner and it changes back to 1st gear. The ‘mechanic’ reset the gearbox, whatever that might mean. It is still faulty.
Basically the service consisted of an oil change and cost $259.00.

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Hi @magpie and welcome to the forum. It sounds like you have the makings of a lemon with unacceptable dealer service, but a few points prior to concluding that.

ADR 18 mandates speedos cannot indicate less then true speed but over-indication can be up to 10% actual speed + 4kph. So while your car is travelling at 90 kph the speedo can display 10% (9 kph) +4kph higher, so as much as 103 kph and be compliant. It is appalling there can be that much discrepancy, but it comes from globally homogenised rule making so by definition you do not have a problem. That would be why Kia declines to take action.

That should be an easy one to demonstrate. I had a similar problem on our Renault post service when the sensors stopped sensing. Right back to the shop. They were red faced that a connection was not reinserted properly and it was a quick fix.

I’d give them another go while keeping the service manager advised it is a return call for the same problem. If still no satisfaction try another Kia dealership and be up front if they do good work, they will get your service business, and follow through.

The reset is probably like a reboot since everything is computer controlled. That sometimes fixes various problems.

To get Kia’s view on whether it is shifting properly take the service manager for a ride to demonstrate what you claim is faulty, if you have not already. Describing something to a service writer is different from having a mechanic experience (and agree) with your observation, or to claim ‘that is how it is’ (and then get a second opinion!)

Good luck getting it sorted, and we would like to know how you go with it.

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Hi @magpie, welcome aboard to the forum.

Just a quick question, how do you know that the speed of the car on the speedometer was over reporting the speed?

If you used a GPS to try and calibrate the speedometer, this may not be the most suitable way to check the speedometer accuracy. This other thread covers this:

From what I understand these are parking senors and work when the car is either in reverse or when the sensors are manually activated by hitting the button on the centre console…

image

Does the senor work under both these conditions…can be checked by someone else outside the car and moving towards the sensor(s) in question.

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And now Jeep aims to challenge Suzuki in the small SUV segment.

I would be putting my money on Suzuki.

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I think @vax2000 would agree with using Suzie :smile:

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3 posts were merged into an existing topic: What are the Best Car Makes, Drivability, Reliability, Safety and Support

This explanation of why Suzuki left the US should hit home with us since many manufacturers have reduced their offers and our choice for sedans, especially, is reducing rapidly apparently with hatches also coming under assault. SUV anyone?

As for the US, their love affair with estate sized 4WD, aka SUV in that market, is as strong as ever. Fuel economy is a distant thought excepting when they are whinging about petrol prices.

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Hi Phil . When Suzuki released the Kizashi medium sized vehicle in Australia , roughly Toyota Camry sized , they thought it would get them up amongst the big boys . I drove the top of the range 4wd model for awhile , roughly $48K on road . The standard model started at $27K . It used the same motor etc as its dearer model and the same CVT auto .

CVT Autos were a dirty word in the industry when they released the Kizashi here . I believe the Jatco gear boxes had inherent design flaws . Nissan found tht out with the Dualis .

My opinion of the Kizashi . Over engineered , over priced and an automatic transmission which the average punter had no long term faith in . This all adds up to no sales .

In Japan the Kizashi is still available . If they put a turbo charger or preferable a super charger and a 6 or 8 speed old style torque converter auto trans in them I would certainly buy one due to their build quality . I would rather have over engineered than under engineered .

I enjoy driving my Baleno GLX turbo . They dropped the turbo motor as an option in January 2019 . Good for me at it has added quite a bit to mine as a trade in as everyone seems to want a turbo . Why did they drop it ? Price .At $24K on road Hyundai and Mazda , especially, had better model options available .

At under $20K now with standard Kit it comes with the GLX is a good buy . I’m seeing more of them on the road . Must admit I have some fun with them at the traffic lights . Their normally aspirated 1.4 litre motor does not come near my Turbo motor .

What is it they say ? " The only difference between the man and the boy is the price of the toy ."

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I was not trying to take anything away from Suzuki.

I just thought it amusing that anyone would draw a comparison between a Jeep and a Suzuki, or any other real vehicle for that matter.

I believe that Jeep should redo their “They bought a Jeep” TV ads combined with the old anti-drink driving TV ads “Bloody Idiot”.

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Jeep and Suzuki caught out with covering up diesel emissions with shonky software.

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Once again Jeep comes to the fore.

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“They bought a Jeep?”.

“Bloody idiot”.

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If one watches the video (at 1:17), the front wheel (US passenger side) turns about 60% as soon as the crash test barrier is hit. With a higher centre of gravity, the turned wheel appears to assist in the rollover (noting that the floor is painted and potentially has less friction than a typical sealed road). In real life driving conditions where a minor front left corner is impacted and the sealed road grips the tyre more, this is recipe for a serious accident and makes for very expensive repairs.

This is definitely a car to avoid unless one is a high risk taker.

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Yeah, I’d much rather have my legs and forehead smashed in a Mazda CX-9 or a Honda Pilot because they have a much better anecdotal brand reputation than be shaken up and on my side in a Jeep :wink: (all of which no doubt written off - they are only hunks of metal after all, it’s not like they are vehicles of real class like a motorcycle …).

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The Jeep Wrangler is more a 4wd off road design than a sedan or SUV. Can the design be improved?
As a safe passenger vehicle or as an off road vehicle?
There is no commentary to suggest it has changed.

Buyer be aware!

For what ever reasons the Wrangler falls onto it’s side the safety testing has done it’s job. Some drivers will continue to choose to buy a Jeep Wrangler regardless. Reliability aside they remain attractive to enough buyers in the market place.

For the rest of us:
A more compelling question for other road users.
Does the side frontal impact reaction of the Jeep Wrangler present an unacceptable risk to other road users or pedestrians?
Or
Are other specialised 4WD vehicles and light utility vehicles/trucks just as likely to roll when involved in similar accidents?

The Jeep Wrangler is not alone if data and anecdote of road accidents is to be considered.

Not Surprising:
The awe inspiring roll onto the side is exaggerated by ‘The Daily’ headline - Jeep Wrangler rolls twice. At first read - a double somersault. On viewing the truth is more readily apparent.

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… and viewing a few others, the variables start to become apparent …

“Small overlap crash test stymies most midsize SUVs - IIHS News”

An interesting part of this for me, watching quite a few of the videos, was the apparent variance in impact zone - ie how well they aimed the car, coupled with how arbitrary this is in relation to the cars structural layout, which varies substantially. A couple of inches this way or that for point of impact could conceivably make a huge difference - and from what it appears, their aim isn’t exactly precision.

In related news, crash tests confirm that large unrelenting objects in a vehicles path are very dangerous - driving around a crash test facility is not recommended :wink:

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None of the vehicles shown rolled though. If the test was about structure and precision, should ‘we’ require all crashes to be controlled to hit each vehicle’s ‘sweet spot’ where the structure worked its best? No need to reply as you know where that discussion would go.

The barrier tests (in theory) are intended to mimic crashes, and crashes have many arbitrary uncontrolled and variable elements. The Jeep failed and once Jeep manufacturer’s input was taken and applied, it failed again.

A vehicle that has a propensity to roll is not just dangerous to its occupants, it is dangerous to whatever it hits and rolls over as well as to anyone in the ‘wrong place’ nearby it rolls into or over.

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At the risk of offering an arm chair opinion.

The propensity for the Wrangler to flip per the crash test is inherent in it’s design. Short wheelbase, high ground clearance or ride height, weight balance, tyre grip, long travel soft suspension, high centre of mass, etc.

Notably the rear end of the Wrangler did not slide around to the opposite side, and continued to push the lifted left hand side of the vehicle along the barrier. The result seemed inevitable. Stability in any crash not assured?

The other vehicle crash tests showed vehicles breaking away and sliding sideways around the crash test barrier. Not a good way to be on a narrow road or in multi lane traffic. Still better than being upside down like a police car in a Blues Brothers mall car chase scene.

What’s missing is more evidence of testing similar design and constructed vehicles to the Wrangler. Perhaps it is a broader concern. At least the Jeep Wrangler has been tested. ANCAP 3star per following link. Better than a Mahindra, Great Wall or Tata product. The 2007-2016 design Land Cruiser tray back also only rates 3 stars. Same poor score for the similar vintage Patrol. The Landrover Defender series has no ANCAP rating listed.

The Jeep Wrangler may just be bringing us the best of last decades design woes.

But then, the 2020 GMC Silverado 1500 is also old school and does not have an ANCAP safety rating. It does come with lots of airbags and a 6.2l petrol V8. Not a town car as you likely need to pay for two car parking spaces due to it’s size.

Our roads are busy with many older 4WD vehicles, often modified for suspension, wheels etc. Who knows what the true level of risk is.

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Lets not confuse safety ratings stars with rolling over on impact as being the same problem. Part of yes, the, no.

One would think the engineers could make a suspension that would not roll on impact, or the design would be changed. It is not as if the barrier test is secretive. Perhaps it has never happened in the wild throughout history?

Since it seems to roll on impact and the design goes on, the target customer base could be those willing to take the risk they would never hit something that would cause a roll over. If they like amusement park ride roll overs fine for them; it is the who/what they hit and potentially roll over on that would my concern, eg innocent bystanders who become collateral damage for the designers. One could easily imagine, especially in the USA, a Very Large lawsuit lodged by a grieving rellie of a deceased who was going about their business, killed by a flying Jeep.

I have yet to see one that is as frightening as many so-called roadworthy modified 4WD’s in the US, licensed insured and daily drivers. Especially in Texas. From a random google…a budgie landing the wrong way could be all it takes, or a cat 1 hurricane crosswind?

A post was split to a new topic: What are the Best Car Makes, Drivability, Reliability and Support